Universal Trend Trading

Discussion in 'Journals' started by luckyputanski, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. Wide Tailz

    Wide Tailz

    At the very least, putting a moving average below your equity curve can serve as a visual aid. I really like the idea of a paper trade threshold (capital deactivation point) based on something like this.

    It puts to rest all the mathematical mumbo jumbo about "risk of ruin"......

    Just turn the capital off after the system breaks its trend.

    A second order trend system, if you will.

    :)
     
    #141     Mar 2, 2012
  2. I did some more tests and took into account only long trades. Profit factor jumped to 12, so all looks fine. Below are two columns: equity at which system starts trading and equity at which system stops.
    6644 139029
    148005 161540
    164928 167537
    176618 191658
    219674 252243
    252243 325535
    343050 578245
    588746 602922
    609376 5346868
    5833955 5684624
    5974585 5904126
    6014544 5951080
    6133783 6133818
    6228144 5926490
    6198918 6180238
    7698357 13663358
    12809502 14612155
    15520695 21030030
    22468818 22181975
    23021759 25527233
    26391617 30158541
    30960358 32986908
    34352716 32963620
    34274135 35268096
    34825434 47414823
    49289991 50127420
    51537168 51501926
    53036522 51075946
    51905732 51769179
    52630936 51516171
    51765047 52480652
    53460758 53204295
    53625793 52176819
    63577180 61457201
    66883377 67813453
    72272528 98568095
    99232047 100791376
    98152038 97365760
    109196273 229534571
    245437946 398248552
    519205981 551992822
    590117824 580683498
    580683498 569518391
    596721964 580928581
    607569581 605838853
    630147885 839524038
    867220207 824484192
    857120808 864196028
    864196028 1113576435
    1208683164 1318934226
    1350159623 2885815396
    2487973604 2487973604
    2512821595 2490216286
    2755426801 2477924112
    2774906453 2960012601
    3095988352 3092779158
    3207769897 3716419245
    3932220157 4239473811
    4239473811 4135321759
    4280141236 4167647357
    4341999949 4239591437
    4270037223 4203795197
    4326448715 4217186977
    4336141829 4679910683
    5588332038 7019657573
    7377874078 7194799992
    7295610271 7357921784
    7394184841 9797836132
    11541024494 15196431707
    16715610680 16941803939
    17322227555 16838752130
    17566501851 17353839466
    17520687720 17118003237
    17247022731 16941669875
    17395455525 16685325775
    17759368777 17843747503
    18428291101 17456272958
    17901008184 20836066593
    22645489848 21067493396
    21460828851 20730609601
    20594063984 16702694493
    17452076835 16593647299
    17723515369 17766708391
    18277231369 17721452510
    18405316300 21859897869
    22326649059 21203781999
    25207728685 24009417079
    24612046924 23936475810
    25251962343 25092811572
    29179372827 24161711495
    29120613201 31107081086
    31978800984 31270253108
    32854784966 35896761487
    39632417173 37038468910
    38604706701 39182690154
    39455840706 38987147928
    41410140955 44718366754
    47475211046 45099805131
    46344926668 45810208147
    46373074392 46408863617
    47766483867 46177719307
    48037260778 49903651208
    50281370271 76712717379
    64397111069 60034821111
    65884793945 64380280568
    65623691534 73590661080
    78871305743 76224993312
    78289234708 78988404741
    80242298820 79061876270
    83623916083 82213658990
    81092642024 83451530744
    115933024141 90331323648
    102116605500 97390259711
    103436533264 104150750006
    104150750006 118375902518
    120599097045 122644887230
    122644887230 126539423435
    127607841071 212862985573
    235035893431 243242076012
    240083194811 232126006844
    246363254349 239443523876
    232186756088 218260873498
    296767691884 454963303214
    454848506753 387927765172
    458313538487 403698743558
    431106843420 400313376447
    447196475378 400610312653
    419534760760 404549580316
    480406927254 423744841924
    444709953193 638775622149
    672396376750 635355558454
    666961942808 662100173465
    677154292422 691765911314
    686567062691 639868292439
    716578948356 658686428403
    708644543713 649898609577
    703362646479 631892418166

    Total amount made by trading this way is negative, why?
    Below is a column that shows % profit on each trade:
    1992.66
    9.14
    1.58
    8.52
    14.83
    29.06
    68.56
    2.41
    777.43
    -2.56
    -1.18
    -1.06
    0.00
    -4.84
    -0.30
    77.48
    14.07
    35.50
    -1.28
    10.88
    14.27
    6.55
    -4.04
    2.90
    36.15
    1.70
    -0.07
    -3.70
    -0.26
    -2.12
    1.38
    -0.48
    -2.70
    -3.33
    1.39
    36.38
    1.57
    -0.80
    110.20
    62.26
    6.31
    -1.60
    -1.92
    -2.65
    -0.28
    33.23
    -4.93
    0.83
    28.86
    9.12
    113.74
    0.00
    -0.90
    -10.07
    6.67
    -0.10
    15.86
    7.81
    -2.46
    -2.63
    -2.36
    -1.55
    -2.53
    7.93
    25.61
    -2.48
    0.85
    32.51
    31.67
    1.35
    -2.79
    -1.21
    -2.30
    -1.77
    -4.08
    0.48
    -5.27
    16.40
    -6.97
    -3.40
    -18.90
    -4.92
    0.24
    -3.04
    18.77
    -5.03
    -4.75
    -2.74
    -0.63
    -17.20
    6.82
    -2.22
    9.26
    -6.55
    1.50
    -1.19
    7.99
    -5.00
    -1.15
    0.08
    -3.33
    3.89
    52.57
    -6.77
    -2.28
    12.14
    -3.36
    0.89
    -1.47
    -1.69
    2.91
    -22.08
    -4.63
    0.69
    13.66
    1.70
    3.18
    66.81
    3.49
    -3.31
    -2.81
    -6.00
    53.31
    -14.71
    -11.92
    -7.14
    -10.42
    -3.57
    -11.79
    43.64
    -5.51
    -0.73
    2.16
    -6.80
    -8.08
    -8.29
    -10.16

    If I used that % to original starting amount (5000) I would end up with 519313704, much less that system's original 631892418166.
    How is it possible and how can I use equity curve trading to my advantage?
     
    #142     Mar 2, 2012
  3. Wide Tailz

    Wide Tailz

    Wow, that didn't work like I thought it would!

    :(
     
    #143     Mar 2, 2012
  4. What happens if your account runs out before the equity curve turns up?
     
    #144     Mar 3, 2012
  5. I wonder why and honestly I'm not sure. Could this be because with trading systems "buy & hold" is better than trend following? Or is it because this trading system hasn't failed yet (last year was awful, but it still makes 50-70 % a year) and equity curve trading makes money only with systems that failed (that is, lost nearly all capital).
     
    #145     Mar 3, 2012
  6. Hasn't happened yet. I will stop trading if account value drops below 50k.
     
    #146     Mar 3, 2012
  7. Wide Tailz

    Wide Tailz

    Equity curve trading does indeed prevent ruin if you stop trading after a change in equity curve trend. However it can also reduce overall profits if not optimized to your particular equity curve characteristics. Why it didn't work in your back test, I can't know because I can't see what signal you used. However, I'd be much more interested in placing the Wide Tailz trend following signal over it, because I see opportunity all over that chart.

    I really appreciate your thread because it's a window into the life of an old school universal trend follower. There are other ways, however, to approach the art. My take on the subject is most excellently summarized by a poster by the name of TK (halfway down the page) in the trading blox forum:

    http://www.tradingblox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7033
     
    #147     Mar 3, 2012
  8. Interesting. I also believe that markets change, nice comparison by TK to number of Aces. I optimized all parameters of my system to get about 120000 combinations. I then calculated average MAR ratio for all of them and I'm using parameters that give results barely above that average.
    If markets change, I have equal chance to be affected positively as negatively.
     
    #148     Mar 4, 2012
  9. Wide Tailz

    Wide Tailz

    Interesting. That reminds me of how automakers detune the fuel map on production cars, to keep everything on the safe side.

    I guess it all comes down to what kind of car you want: a Honda Accord or a boosted race car with gauges all over the panel to keep you from blowing it up!

    :D
     
    #149     Mar 6, 2012
  10. I think about more as a kalashnikov. Loosly connected parts that work in -40 C (Germans had a problem with their precisely manufactured guns in cold temperatures) and +40 C. Simple, just to get the job done.
     
    #150     Mar 6, 2012