unhappy with Collective2

Discussion in 'Trading' started by TradeBlazer, Mar 9, 2024.

  1. I don't know why you carefully selected those two dates to nitpick. Look a few days before or a few days after them. Better yet, look weeks before or weeks after, or a month before and a month after.
     
    #31     Mar 16, 2024
  2. When did that drawdown occur? Close to the onset of the strategy's origin. Then look at the performance of the strategy since then. See any more big dips in drawdown? And remember, win rate means nothing. It's about the bottom line and growing your capital. I do trade this strategy using my own money.

    "I mean think about it, if you were to invest your own money, would you invest in a strategy that only wins less than half of the time and can make you lose almost half of your money?"
    I look at the bottom line performance. If the capital is increasing and it looks like risk is managed fairly well, then yes I would invest in a strategy. The drawdawn from last September is no longer an issue but C2 likes to put up in the front page frong and center in size 32 font regardless of how things may have been corrected since then.
     
    #32     Mar 16, 2024
  3. Just to provide an update, after lengthy correspondence with Collective2 they replied with the following assessment regarding my original question and my original post on this disucssion forum:

    so my strategy has not been showing up in the Leaderboard because their algorithm places a lot of emphasis on the tenure of the strategy. Can't say that I disagree with that from their perspective.
     
    #33     Mar 16, 2024
  4. Look at the size of the wins vs. the size of the losses. Win rate alone is truly meaningless. You could have a 25% win rate and still be profitable if each win was much larger than all of the small losses. Win rate means little; look at the bottom line and historical performance of the portfolio. I know you have your own rules and that's fine but they are not universal to a winning strategy. I'm sure you have heard of the old adage " let your winners run and cut your losses early." That does not equate to a high win/loss percentage.
     
    #34     Mar 16, 2024
  5. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Well then like I told you,
    What are you still hung up about subscription fees from C2 for?
     
    #35     Mar 16, 2024
  6. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Provided you would still have money left for you to hit the big home run. Lottery return is 1,000,000+% but its win rate is 0.00000000001%, is investing in lotteries a profitable strategy then if win rate doesn't matter and all it matters is returns %? This is what people don't understand about the probability of trading wins vs. losses. The probability of winning/losing for each trade is independent. In other words, the probabiltiy of you winning/losing the next trade is not dependent on whether and how many times you have already won/lost. If your win rate is only 25%, then you are losing 3 trades out of 4, what if you lose them all in a row before you hit that winning 4th trade and by the time when you do, you have lost all of your capital, how are you going to have enough investment capital to win back all of the losses and even end up profitable even if each of the winning trade wins more than the previous losing trade? This is why I feel win rate is also important because we don't get to choose when we win and when we lose so it helps if we can maximize the frequency of your winning trades.

    Like I said the prerequisite to "let your winners run" is that it has to be a "winner" in the first place.
     
    #36     Mar 16, 2024
  7. I am not hung up on subscription fees. Re-read my op.
     
    #37     Mar 17, 2024
  8. I don't know why you are talking about homeruns and lotteries. A trader could have tight stops which lowers their win%. Everyone trades differently. Losing 3 trades then winning one trade does not result in losing all capital since position sizing comes into play.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
    #38     Mar 17, 2024
  9. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Well if you have tight stops, you are going to need "homeruns" aka relatively larger profit on winning trades to make up all the losses incurred by the stop-losses. That's what I mean.

    But it could especially if you can have a maximum drawdown close to 50% of the capital. I am not trying to put down your strategy. I am just trying to show you what potential investors see and what they think about when they look at your strategy. And this might be what C2 thinks about and/or factors in when they calculate their proprietary algorithm to determine the ranks.
     
    #39     Mar 18, 2024
  10. rtw

    rtw

    thank you for sharing this information.

    it is very valuable, i will immediately act up on it.

    regarding the conditions for trade leaders with c2, the situation is even worse than what has been stated here. c2 will charge a fee to trade leaders, also take 50% of all subscriptions payments and then in turn delay payments to trade leaders between 45 to 75 days at their sole discretion.

    i have wanted to record the performance of my strategies on that venue for a long time but the conditions are just totally unreasonable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2025
    #40     Feb 2, 2025