Unemployment crisis

Discussion in 'Economics' started by nooby_mcnoob, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. By the way, aside from AI, I support UBI primarily because it helps the entire society gain the first layer of Maslow's hierarchy and that can be something that has so many positive implications that it's worth trying.
     
    #11     Jul 25, 2019
  2. But only if UBI is implemented without the involvement of the Fed. It should be a python program run once a month that deposits into our blockchain accounts.
     
    #12     Jul 25, 2019
  3. dozu888

    dozu888

    so allow me to look at it pessimistically - if the human's only advantage, the brain, is no longer the most superior, what is going to prevent the machines, or the very few that control the machines, from deciding that we are just dead weight?

    scary thought isn't it lol.
     
    #13     Jul 25, 2019
  4. We are dead weight though and those who run the political machine have already been executing the "create more usable slaves" playbook for the last 60-70 years. Birth rates down, marriage rates down... These create usable slaves.

    In the end, we can go back to growing our own food and being local and not needing the machines.

    So the question is whether the machines will be good replacement slaves for us, or whether our slavery is still required.
     
    #14     Jul 25, 2019
  5. dozu888

    dozu888

    a few thoughts -

    - UBI $1000/month, or some kind of cradle to grave safety net like the Scandinavians or NZ, to me makes not much difference... the key issue here is the immigration policy... the southern border is already over-run.... imagine UBI is in and the entire world wants to come for free milk and honey..... I'd even argue Milton Freeman's negative income tax is a better idea because that incentivize people to go out there look for work while with some safety net, rather than a flat $1000 that produces no incentive.

    - Fed involvement or not... I don't see it as a key difference maker.. the fundamental difference between Yang's and my idea, is whether you go after redistribution, or after unlimited abundance.
     
    #15     Jul 25, 2019
  6. UBI through negative income tax or distributions is not important to me, but the difficulty lies in it becoming yet another welfare program. Yang's UBI will get rid of all welfare programs which is huge if successful. Imagine...

    Yang also wants to get rid of income tax, but he hasn't made that part of his platform yet.
     
    #16     Jul 25, 2019
  7. dozu888

    dozu888

    so to continue on the pessimistic line of thought lol -

    I don't see how our slavery is still required... at some point we will lose all the advantages... heck right now all we have left is the brain... the other body parts, the hand, the legs etc, have been inferior to the machines since long ago!

    and yes we can go off grid and live like stray dogs lol.... but remember Russia cleaned up the strays for the World Cup? what is gonna prevent the machines to send a bunch of flying drones and eliminate the unsightly stray dogs lol.
     
    #17     Jul 25, 2019
    nooby_mcnoob likes this.
  8. dozu888

    dozu888

    just by VAT? not gonna work... this economy is powered by consumption... won't the VAT just discourage people from going out there and buy stuff lol.
     
    #18     Jul 25, 2019
  9. Depressing, and will be done through less violent means. Russia is not as well versed in manipulating people through more subtle means.

    The VAT he proposes would not apply (or apply less?) to things that poor people need. For people who are less price sensitive, it wouldn't matter much, though it would still suck of course.
     
    #19     Jul 25, 2019
  10. gaussian

    gaussian

    Implication being this problem didn't exist during any non-Trump administration. Ever wonder how Obama achieved such great post recession numbers? Watch this video.

    In many fields AI (really, machine learning) can replace entire groups of humans running on outdated wetware. AI tends to be more precise in diagnosing certain types of cancers, and is quicker to make decision (such as driving, flying, etc) than even the most capable human beings.We aren't far off from fully autonomous surgeries which, while still needing the supervision of an MD, will likely reduce on-table deaths 10-fold. The robot revolution is here.

    You're vastly underplaying the power of AI and why the AI revolution is frightening. You should do more reading.

    At least we can agree here. Some form of UBI is necessary, and a VAT is the way we get it. There is too much money in the current serfdom we have. Yang has no chance in 2020 (unfortunately). However, you know the winds of change are present when the blue collar working class elects an out of touch billionaire fraud as their president - an act of desperation after enduring 8 years of Obama doing everything he could to destroy the middle class.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    #20     Jul 26, 2019