That "major cachingo" phrase sounds vaguely Waxie-ish - you're not a disciple are you? Don't think I've heard anyone use that phrase except for him, a drunk surfer ("Hey dude, this bar bill is major cachingo"), and a guy at Goldman who thought he was Joe "I'm hip" Studley (and later faced multiple sexual harrassment complaints). The only reason to follow someone's calls is IF they issue both the calls and the exits either ahead of time as a trading plan or in realtime (i.e., "entering long right now @ 20" - AND the price really is currently 20, not that they entered a minute ago at 20 and it's now at 20 1/2 - then they also say "exiting half the position right now @ 21 and moving the stop to 19" rather than later after the price rolled over telling everyone that they exited at 21 and if you didn't it's your fault for not "managing" the trade). Whether someone has a 90% success record on their calls is ENTIRELY dependent on how each call was managed. The calls themselves are secondary. If they don't give the position management plan ahead of time or in realtime, the calls are worthless and any success record claim is bogus. If you're running a trading site that charges an exorbitant fee (e.g., $200-500/month), you have a responsibility to those paying the fee - at least if you're legit: - Identify the style of trading the site caters to - if the calls are mostly very short timeframe scalps, say so. It's improper to say that each trader needs to manage a call for their own style since a call that's right for a quick scalp is usually NOT right for a longer term daytrader or swing trader. You're charging a fee, better be clear about what you are and are not delivering. - Always identify the exits - even if you're making quick scalp calls, if you have the time to issue the buy/sell call in realtime, you sure as hell have time to also issue the "everyone out of the water" call too. At least if you're legit. If you're laying out preliminary trading plans in advance, the profit taking and/or exits and stop management plan should be a part of it. - Merely saying "we're long at 34" and then leaving the trade up to those paying you potentially a lot of dough doesn't constitute a legit operation. You can use software to generate an endless stream of entry signals that will either be profitable or not depending on how they're managed. Charging just to make entry calls is BS. - If you can't stratify the calls (for the trading style they're relavent to) and you can't deliver the position management calls/plan that will ultimately determine if the call was good or not - then don't pretend to be in business because it's little more than a scam. My 2/100ths of a dollar anyway.
I subscribe to multiple chatrooms and UT is one of the better ones out there. After reading some of the post, I can see how easy it is to jump on the wagon and start trashing these trading site. UT is one of the better tradings rooms out there, but don't trash it because you heard so and so told you this and that. 1) Jay Yu does not trade 2) Recommendations - most plays are scalps, if it's a swing call, he will call it a swing plaly 3) Exits, it all depend on your tolerance, if you're a piker, take your 5 cents, if you're an experience trader, use your charts and determine your exits and stops 4) Jay warns against impulse traders, people who jumps in trade alerts expecting to make tons of cash, hey, if you do that, you might as well just do it without the room I can go on and trash other services out there ( and I will) but I had to defend UT because some people are making accusations that not even close to the truth. Let me give you my two cents 1) Pristine Advanced Room - $800 a month when it was moderated by Alexander Grace, the room cost many memeber $$$ and Oliver Veldez admitted that Mr. Grace had outside interest and stole from the members 2) Millenium, sign it and find out on and on... hey, if you don't like it, fine, but if you lost thousands due to UT, you have the right to be mad, but dont' trash them because you hate some of these so-called pump & Dump rooms. We all can't rule the freakin mkt!!!
"The other problem that bothered me was when calls went well everyone was quick to congratulate Jay, and he was quick to accept the kudos. Yet when calls went bad NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE would dare mention it, and that includes Jay. Or if there was any hint that someone wasn't quick enough to grab that .08 scalp before the stock reversed, they would be met with that lovely "Manage It". I have tried several chat rooms and when I saw this post I died laughing because this is EXACTLY how Ken Calhoun runs his room. If his call works the mutes who follow him shower him with "you're the man" and "You rule Ken" to which he inevitably replies "Ca Chingo" or "just call me your virtual ATM" or the famous "Whos your Daddy".....only just after he stated "this is a professional room only"...and "no BS 'whos your Daddy' stuff will be tolerated"! The funny thing is he spends a great deal of time making fun of Jay/Underground Trader but seems to emulate the exact same stuff. THat said, they both tend to provide some value in the form of real time alerts depending on your style and at this point the other stuff becomes more entertainment for me when things are slow.
I had only a trial subscription soon after they opened, but it is my recollection that Reality Trader chat room called both entries and suggested exits.
doug neston and I want to know if anyone can truthfully say they made real money in one of these rooms on a consistent basis. I know you had some winning trades, but consistent money, month in and month out. My guess is no one can honestly say they made a dime, net net. But I am happy to be proven wrong.
Hi! Yes, I´m making money in a consistent way. I´m using the ut techniques and they really fit to my style of trading. But the best thing is that I learned to fish. Only 10% of my trades are calls from Jay. Most of the trades are my own. But I use his techniques. I´m still a member of the pit because Jay is a great stock picker. Thats worth the 300$. And to become a good trader its necessary to hang around with great traders. One of the most important thing about the pit is, that Jay is very adapting in his trading style. So he also mastered the low volumen range market in summer, the dezimals and so on. He rarely uses 3 min crossovers and stoch scalps at least. These days are gone. For sure he uses this tools but dont trades the way discriped in the book most of the time. cu
dufferdon.. yeah, realitytrader is the real deal.. they usually start by mentioning a stock they are watching for a particular setup, what the entry and stop would be.. then there is an entry called when the setup is triggered followed by a "dont chase!".. and then they suggest places to exit or will call a stop depending on the action.. i never joined a trading room because i wanted someone to call every trade for me.. but i had tried several methods from books and couldnt seems to make them work.. i felt that if i could "watch" someone execute one of these strategies then i could learn to do it myself.. so, i joined mtrader.com.. unfortunately i was never able to fully understand what he was doing.. i never saw one stock leading other stocks.. i couldnt time the 18th bottom and make up for the previous 17 stops.. and i could never quantify the all important "i see buying".. a good example of exactly what i was not looking for.. then i joined realitytrader.. they have clear entry and exit rules.. plus, they also teach about the mental aspects of trading.. i learned the method and applied the mental techniques.. worth the cost to me.. if i were at a trading firm i would pick the brains and look over the shoulder of the top traders at the firm.. but since my trading room has only one chair, i had to improvise.. i have no experience with UT aside from reading the book.. it was interesting but didnt turn me on.. -qwik
I've known both Jay Yu and Russ Lockhart (of the UT) personally for many years. I have been a member of the UT pit for many years and continue to this day. These are 2 very sincere, and classy individuals with alot of experience and interest in sharing their expertise. I talk with them regularly in the pit, and have shared a few dinners with them over the years. Over the years, I've learned much about stock scalping from Jay, using stochastic bounces, moving averages, multiple timeframes (1min, 3min), Level2, Order routing, use of ECN's, when to enter, when to exit, trade management, money management, paring in and out of trades, stop losses, momentum ticks, etc. I've learned this from Jay through his seminars, his realtime calls, his book, and lesson's learned from him sitting in his booth at various trade shows. I've also learned much from Russ Lockhart (ral) about futures and options trading including multiple uses of Japanese candlesticks, 3price break, Market Structure Points/Triggers, Elliott Wave, Fibanacci, Gann, Price/Time characteristics, trading psychology, economics, etc. During all the time I've been involved with UT, I've had the opportunity to associate with many of the worlds best traders. Jay and Russ have a number of traders (the "purple people) that volunteer their time and knowledge to help others learn the methods and apply them in their trading. Seminar/Classses are given at least 3 times a week and have been logged for many years. A new subscriber has immediate access to an abundance of printed material to come up to speed under the "Trainers Training" section of the pit. Give all of this "up-front", "proactive" training, the intent is to teach a trader to know how to trade and to make his own decisions. If a trader is serious about learning this business, and has used all the available resources by Jay and Russ, he will know the various methods for entries, exits with profit, exits with stop loss. He will be able to trade efficiently and effectively. A trader who has absorbed the lessons provided will often notice an entry signal and take it, at the same time Jay or Russ are making a "call" as an realworld example. This is a very valuable service and well worth the money. I have no financial interest in the room. Just very satisfied with the education I've received and the results in my trading. Best Regards, Steve Peterson "SteveP"
"Why if they are so good going to teach and bother with you ? Make all the money in some tax haven and enjoy life if you are a star trader !! Come now answer this !!! " Gee did you ever consider for a moment that people actually are satisfied in teaching others? Sure they make a profit...As do college professors and such. It isnt all about money all the time... If your logic is sound then why do authors write books? Why do you bother even reading these threads? Jeesh