undercapitalization or just a loser?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by flow_77, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. flow_77


    I trade since 3 months futures (part-time) and did a lousy job.
    I got my 25k account down to 18k moving constantly downwards. The margin is not the problem (ca. 6k/future) at the moment, the volatility is (sometimes I am up 700, sometimes down, 250 are a matter of minutes, sometimes seconds)
    I am quite depressed - first everything looked fine, I had some great days and imagined becoming a second Tudor Jones :)

    Now I have fear that most of these early winning days are just luck. My performance got worse - I had especially in the last weeks often 5-7 loosing days in a row. The biggest problem is, that I loose constantly - often I see my mistakes but... will just repeat them again (especially impulsive trading or this hypnotized rabbit behaviour).
    I think I got better and learned - but my account says the opposite.

    Okay, enough weeping...

    1) Is this drawdown normal for a newbie? Or am I just another animal for slaughter? ;-)
    2) How do you know that one`s a good trader and what does it take (profit, timeframe, ...)?

    I really would appreciate your answers - I think there are some professionals round here who really know how the job has to be done.

    best regards,

  2. I have no experience trading futures but I think when you have $700 days and ($250) swings, you are trading too aggressive for a person starting out. Try to cut down size and get consistent before you increase your size.
  3. What kind of size are you trading? $700 swing shouldn't be happening with 1 contract.

  4. T-REX





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    However, If the motive for your decision to enter these markets is so that you can prove how smart you are and how you can figure out these markets then I'm simply wasting your time and I'm sorry. But if your intentions is to extract money from the market on a consistant basis then RUSH to download today's MATRIX.:D
  5. flow_77


    @ fast_trader

    I am trading 1 futures contract (DAX, Germany), 25 EUR/point.

    Open: 3567
    High: 3593
    Low: 3537
    Close: 3585?

    Open: 3595
    High: 3606
    Low: 3547
    Close: ?

    @ BuddhaTop
    What trading or account size would be appropriate?

    @ T-Rex
    I will work through this xls`s - but I trade the DAX...

    thank you all!
  6. funky


    either you have a systematic way of making money or you don't. there shouldn't be any surprise. when you lose you should know EXACTLY why. either you didn't execute your system, or the loss was a part of the system.

    when you have no guidelines or your system is not black/white, this is what happens.
  7. It should be expected that you lose some money as you invest in your learning curve. I lost half of my $25K before I turned it around. For me, getting my account back to my original 25k, seem to take an eternity( acutally only 2 or 3months), after that, my account made a parabolic move upwards.

    Two critical points to improve your trading. You are losing too much too fast, trade 1 lots until you prove to yourself that you have an edge, and secondly, you must improve your discipline. If you continue to repeat your stupid mistakes you will be wiped out of the game. This market is not forgiving of mistakes, if you are wrong, then you must focus on mimimizing your losing trade. Take care of your losers, your winners take care of themselves.

  8. funky


    so let me get this straight, you are advising him to expect to lose money, and to continue to risk his money while finding out if he has an edge?

    am i missing something here?
  9. fan27


    I am newbie at daytrading (7 months) and not yet consistently profitable. Last month, I switched from trading 100 shares of SPY to 1 lot ES. The losses came fast and furious. After 2 weeks and down an additional $500, I regrouped, pinpointed what went wrong, and traded using a simulator. I concluded that there was no point in risking real money until I perform well paper trading. After 2 weeks of success on the simulator, I am no trading 1 ES lot again. Not yet profitable, but the bleeding has stopped.

    Good Luck
  10. flow_77


    I think this is exactly the problem:
    I have no real b/w system... but how can I find a profitable one without risking money? My paper trades were quite good - the problem occurs when there is real money involved...
    how much do you risk while your system is evolving/improving?

    What did you exactly do to improve your trading?
    6k to go ;-)

    ;-) brother in arms... the problem is - I am good at paper trading, but I have difficulties to duplicate it "in the real world".
    This I really would like to know: When you are getting more experienced - do you learn how to transfer paper trading abilities into real-world trading or is it "a gift nobody can learn"?


    great - thank you for your answers, you really help me a lot!
    #10     Oct 21, 2003