I'll try to get details for you, but I still don't understand your point: there were about 4-5 million colonists at the time of the ratification and they were overwhelmingly Protestant. Congregationalists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Quakers and a few other denominations that escape my memory were the largest. Catholics and Jews did not imigrate in any significant numbers until the mid 1800's. So prior to the mid 1800's there was a Christian "consensus". It would not have crossed their mind to think of anything other than Christian. They put Bible verses and Christian references all over the place including government documents, decrees and monuments. So I just don't see how you can think that they were trying to put a separation of church and state in any ACLU sense of the word...
If that is the case, then why, during the Early Years of the Republic, did the following take place? Why did the U. S. Congress not allow prayer during its official legislative sessions? Why did Congress terminate the practice of asking the Presidents to issue religious proclamations? Why did the Presidents terminate the practice of issuing religious proclamations? Why did Congress never pass a law that made God the object of human legislation, such as putting âIn God We Trust" on the nations coins?â Why did Congress refuse to take cognizance of whether inaccurate Bibles were being published in the United States? Why did Congress refuse to enact legislation to support the gospel in the Northwestern Territory? Why did the Senate pass a treaty declaring that the U. S. was in no sense founded upon the Christian Religion? Why did Congress on numerous occasions reject the argument that making a law, requiring the mail to be transported and post offices opened on Sundays, was an illegal establishment of religion? Why did the House of Reprehensive reject the âNo National Religionâ interpretation of the establishment clause in the 1811 dispute over whether Congress had authority over the election and dismissal of the ministers of the Protestant Episcopal Church? Why didnât Congress allow the Ten Commandments to be posted by the Government? If Congress had all this power to establish religion, except to set up a national religion, then why, during the Early Years of the Republic, didnât it ever exercise that power?
Because they didn't need to. If virtually everyone is Christian around you, there was no point. That would be like the church I go to saying, "Okay, let's put it in our charter that we're a Christian church". It would never even cross anyone's mind and, if it did, it would be 1000th on the "to do" list...
Because those were people with foresight and knew that separation of the church and the state would lead to a stronger nation.
Btw, I think this is all strictly an exercise in history: there is no way for America to enact any Christian Nation legislation now nor would I want them to if they could. That would make about as much sense as Prohibition in my mind. But I think it's historically inaccurate to think that these early Protestants were thinking of separation and church and state in any way as we think of it today.
They did consider the U. S. to be a "Christian Nation." However is was probably not your kind of "Christian Nation." Their idea of a "Christian Nation" was one that adopted a system of republican government that excluded the duty which we owe to our Creator from the cognizance of the government and exempted religion from the authority of the civil magistrate. That is why from 1776 to 1833: * Legal establishments of religious doctrine and modes of worship were abolished * General assessments for the support of religion were abolished. * Religious tests were abolished. * Religion based civil rights disabities were abolished. Rhode Island never had a union of church and state. Virginia and New York totally divorced religion from politics in 1776. Others did it by 1793. In Connecticut and Massachusetts, the divorce was difficut and contentious. It was not totally accomplished in Connecticut until 1818. In Massachusetts it was not accomplished until the 1830's. The States admitted to the union after 1787 were all established with a separation of church and state.
In my view, what was intended by the founders was probably what actually happened during the Early Years of the Republic. At the federal level there was: No making God (especially doctrine and manners of worship) the object of human legislation. No use of law making authority to declare the people's trust in God for them or to advise them to believe that the nation is "under God." No religious advice from the government. The First Congress made a huge mistake by passing that first joint resolution asking the President to issue a religious recommendation. They knew that sort of thing was not appropriate in a republican form of governmet. However, Congress never claimed it was legal. The fact that it was almost twenty- five years before Congress asked the President to issue another religious recommendation via executive proclamation proves that the First Congress probably did not believe the practice of issuing annual religious recommendations was legal or very wise. No government support of religion. Congress, by electing its two chaplains, did not exercise any authority whatsoever over the peoples religion. The only religion affected was the religion of Congress. Also, the law making authority of Congress was not used to elect the Chaplains. It was a violation of the Constitution to impose the obligation of $500 per year on the pleople to pay the two Chaplains $250 each. However, Congress always rejected the argument that paying the Chaplains out of the national taxes was consistent with the Constitution. The payment of the Chaplains was always viewed as an exception to the principles of the Constitution, not the expression of them.
fred I think your historical review of the states support or endorsement of religion is a little off. I just reread the Trinity case by the u.s. Supreme Court in 1892. Which in support of its holding declared at the time the u.s. is a Christian Nation. The U.S. Supreme court reviewed the law in many states and here is part of what they found. ---- If we examine the constitutions of the various states, we find in them a constant recognition of religious obligations. Every constitution of every one of the 44 states contains language which, either directly or by clear implication, recognizes a profound reverence for religion, and an assumption that its influence in all human affairs is essential to the well-being of the community. This recognition may be in the preamble, such as is found in the constitution of Illinois, 1870: "We, the people of the state of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political, and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing upon our endeavors to secure and transmit the same unimpaired to succeeding generations," etc. It may be only in the familiar requisition that all officers shall take an oath closing with the declaration, "so help me God." It may be in clauses like that of the constitution of Indiana, 1816, art. 11, §4: "The manner of administering an oath or affirmation shall be such as is most consistent with the conscience of the deponent, and shall be esteemed the most solemn appeal to God." Or in provisions such as are found in articles 36 and 37 of the declaration of the rights of the constitution of Maryland, (1867): "That, as it is the duty of every man to worship God in such manner as he thinks most acceptable to Him, all persons are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty: wherefore, no person ought, by any law, to be molested in his person or estate on account of his religious persuasion or profession, or for his religious practice, unless, under the color of religion, he shall disturb the good order, peace, or safety of the state, or shall infringe the laws of morality, or injure others in their natural, civil, or religious rights; nor ought any person to be compelled to frequent or maintain or contribute, unless on contract, to maintain any place of worship or any ministry; nor shall any person, otherwise competent, be deemed incompetent as a witness or juror on account of his religious belief: provided, he [143 U.S. 457, 469] believes in the existence of God, and that, under his dispensation, such person will be held morally accountable for his acts, and be rewarded or punished therefor, either in this world or the world to come. That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office or profit or trust in this state, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this constitution." Or like that in articles 2 and 3 of part 1 of the constitution of Massachusetts, (1780 "It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the Supreme Being, the Great Creator and Preserver of the universe. * * * As the happiness of a people and the good order and preservation of civil government essentially depend upon piety, religion, and morality, and as these cannot be generally diffused through a community but by the institution of the public worship of God and of public instructions in piety, religion, and morality: Therefore, to promote their happiness, and to secure the good order and preservation of their government, the people of this commonwealth have a right to invest their legislature with power to authorize and require, and the legislature shall, from time to time, authorize and require, the several towns, parishes, precincts, and other bodies politic or religious societies to make suitable provision, at their own expense, for the institution of the public worship of God and for the support and maintenance of public Protestant teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all cases where such provisions shall not be made voluntarily." Or, as in sections 5 and 14 of article 7 of the constitution of Mississippi, (1832 "No person who denies the being of a God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state. * * * Religion {516} morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government, the preservation of liberty, and the happiness of mankind, schools, and the means of education, shall forever be encouraged in this state." Or by article 22 of the constitution of Delaware, (1776,) which required all officers, besides an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe the following declaration: "I, A.B., do profess [143 U.S. 457, 470] faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
Was government support or endorsement of relgion even an issue in "Holy Trinity?" If so, please post the portions of the opinion that adress that issue.