Ultra thinker

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OPTIONAL777, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. This is a bit before your era, but in the 1980s the "Contras" in Nicaragua, did precisely this. The Contras were terrorists before "terrorist" was a trendy all-purpose politician term.

    The Contras used to go around to people's houses, and deliberately kill a man right in front of his wife, and tell her that they would do the same thing to her children if she tried to oppose them in any way. The Contras were supplied and trained by the US military and the CIA. At the time, the vice-president of the United States was the former head of the CIA. His name was George Bush. The administration of which he was the vice-president called these U.S.-trained and supplied terrorists "Freedom Fighters", to sell the American public on backing them.

    To hear the son of that former CIA chief spout about how opposed he is to terrorism is not even grimly funny.
     
    #21     Apr 4, 2003
  2. I think you miss the altogether obvious implication, that terrorism against the USA and its interests is what he opposes.
     
    #22     Apr 4, 2003


  3. Exactly hii a_ooiioo_a. Not only that, but they were rebelling against the democratically elected government of Nicaragua (elected in a landslide too).

    So just because there's a degree of separation between the CIA that provided them with support and trained them hardly makes Bush snr any less of a criminal SOB than Bush.

    It fucking breaks my heart to think of the countless thousands upon thousand upon thousands who have died because of the fucking Americans. And then worms like Optional just excuse it all away.
     
    #23     Apr 4, 2003
  4. There are many people who for various (but not too different) reasons want to argue that the Holocaust never took place and is a magnificent hoax concocted by the survivors.

    There are two opposite assertions being made of a hoax, and one thing we can all agree about is that they are not both true, and one is false. A hoax is definitely being attempted. How to decide which is the truth and which is the lie.

    This is an ancient dilemma. Solomon had to cope with the same situation in his famous parable about the baby which two women claimed to be the mother of. We know that they could not both be telling the truth (this was thousands of years before surrogate impregnations . . .)

    Factual evidence must win out in the end. On top of the mountains of records and information, much of it compiled by the nazis themselves, as well as recollections by the jewish survivors, eventually DNA identification will be able to be used from the many mass graves that will link those mass graves to the anecdotes and records of them, and identify the numbers of them that were jewish, through DNA connections to the survivors, and their descendents. And also forensic evidence of how they died will make clear what did in fact take place at those sites.

    But, of course, even in the face of indisputable evidence there will be plenty of people who will choose to believe what they want to believe no matter how obviously false.
     
    #24     Apr 4, 2003
  5. So, he's not really against "evil" on principle. When "they" do something "evil", well it's evil and must be swiftly and mercilessly punished. When we do the same things, it's all hunky-dory, perfectly justifiable, because after all we're The Good Guys, and we can do no wrong.

    Yup, integrity like that makes me damn Proud-To-Be-An-American.
     
    #25     Apr 4, 2003
  6. Suspicious in what way?
     
    #26     Apr 4, 2003
  7. Optional,

    Aren't you suspicious of someone when you have, at the very least, a reasonable idea they are only telling you half of a story? Do you think every move the SEC makes is really an altruistic manuever to guard the interests of the "little guy?" What about all the companies who promote themselves as "caring?" One doesn't have to be against the war or pro-terrorism to question the motives of those in power, do they?
     
    #27     Apr 5, 2003
  8. The very best I would expect on nation to display is a sense of enlightened self interest in relation to the needs of other countries.

    Somewhere along the line, people have come to expect America to be something along the lines of altruistic.

    I hardly see any nation in that light, or do I think it would be possible in the long run to do so, nor do I think it is their job to do so as a nation.

    It has always been possible to find the selfish and ugly side of any government or political body that has ever been in power throughout history, America is, and never has been an exception.

    Most reasonable people, who have had enough life experience to see more than the simple black and white perspectives that are so attractive and tend to polarize people toward dualistic thinking, know that life is a constant negotiation with the forces of good and evil that are pervasive in our world, if not lively within our own human psyche.

    For all of America's faults, and there are many, we have equally displayed the greatest restraint, overt restraint, in domination of other societies and culture.

    I don't believe this is because we are at heart the nice guys. I see it as some beginning of the enlightened self interest that is necessary for a world community to survive and thrive.

    It is simply not possible for a country to exist in isolation these days, especially so with the advent of technology in the form of weapons of mass destruction. 100 years ago, no Americans lived in fear of a small band of "terrorists" coming to America to unleash WMD, that could potentially kill millions.

    So, with capitalism as the basis of our country, yes capitalism--not spirituality and God, it is the enlightened capitalist that understands that for the sake of his own economy he needs strong and robust economies world wide.

    US Foreign policy at its heart is based on capitalism, which is another name for "national interest."

    A truly enlightened self-interest and national security system would be to help create a world full of basically satiated people, who had enough food shelter and clothing to tow the line of their respective lives and societies, have some chance for upward mobility, and be content enough to not threaten our way of life.

    We have acted in manners that are nothing to be proud of, and I suspect that we will do so in the future, and it is the job of the media to bring them to the publics attention.

    As I have mentioned before, the key to the survival of our freedom and strength in this country is a strong and objective media presence in this country, a presence that the people can trust to be the watchdog of the system.

    The problem with the ultra right and left wing approaches, is that they put off the average American, and rightly they should. Who really wants to hear vile and biased news, that seeks to do nothing but advance some political agenda?

    America is not perfect, who ever thought it was? However, with all of our warts, we are still the most advanced society in recorded western history, and given a choice of supporting the 14th century mentality of Iraq and the current administration, it is simply not a difficult choice to make.

    I have learned over time that the best way to promote change is within the system, slowly, gradually, and consistently.

    America is not in need of a revolution at present, nor is it in need of a new constitution, etc.

    As always, we are just in need of a few more enlightened public servants, who understand that serving their own self interests and national self interests for the long run are congruous, and not really opposite in nature. Extend that to foreign policy, and of course things will continue to improve.
     
    #28     Apr 5, 2003
  9. Do you believe that the atrocities that were reported, did in fact happen?
     
    #29     Apr 5, 2003
  10. I am skeptical by nature, sure. However, since living requires some modicum of trust, I do have to trust our elected officials to some extent, I do have to trust the guy who drives the bus, pilots the plane, cooks my food when I eat out, etc..

    Do I think the SEC is corrupt? No more or less than any other institution in America, which includes political institutions, media institutions, religious institutions, business institutions, etc, etc, etc..

    Any institution is as corrupt as the sum of the parts of that institution, i.e. the collective members that comprise that institution.

    I imagine there are some good and bad folks at the SEC, sure. I do my best to make the most informed and best decision based on time and available data.
     
    #30     Apr 5, 2003