lol, i'm still cracking up over Chanos comment on Mars not having an extradition treaty. i see where peck gets his panties in a bunch...you must read the propaganda and take it as fact...there's no arguing with u. i'll admit though, of all the hate prop i read, never saw someone say there will not be a 35k car as a fact. you make Chanos look like a piker in that regard.
You should read SeekingAlpha more often. By the way if you do the math, it is pretty obvious. Tesla is losing money at 45K with all the luxury extras, so how could they make it profitably for 35K and in huge volume? It is very hard to make EVs profitably. Ford can swallow the loss and call it the cost of business selling cars in California. Tesla only sells EVs and tax credits, but the credits value is declining (even according to St. Elon) as other automakers make their own EVs. By the way the reason Elon picked 35K was, because that is the cost of the average car in the USA and he wanted to claim a cheap car. Obviously the price has to be average or below to be defined as cheap. The point is, he didn't make an estimate of the actual cost, he just pulled this number out of his ass and now he is eating the fruit of that decision, when can't sell it en masse... Anyhow, I will stop posting here if they ever sell an M3 for 35K. TL;DR: Start using your own brain and stop listening to Elon.
lol seeking alpha..aren't those writers everyday joe's purporting to be legit anal ysis? i'll stick with spreading actual vx futures, thank you and holding my TSLA longterm i have on order the cheap M3, but with the +$1,000 paint upgrade..for my son. if i get it for the 36k..i'll post the pic of the invoice which is more important than a dumb car pic.
So Tesla does do GAAP accounting, every public company does. They also publish parallel non-GAAP numbers, as pretty much every tech company has since the .com era. Books have literally been written on how GAAP falls short in reflecting high growth company's finance and how non-GAAP numbers can be used to mislead, it's hardly a Tesla thing. However, there's no need to deduce anything, Telsa's deposits are right there in their GAAP consolidated balance sheet under liabilities, right where I said they'd be. This is as of Sep 30th, 2017 with the right column Dec 31, 2016 from Tesla's 10-Q for the quarter ending Sep 30, 2017. It's in thousands, so $686,084,000 in customer deposits on hand. Here's the number for year end, it's up to $853,919. We can expect the 10-Q for Q1 to come out any day now, at which point we'll see what the number is. I don't care enough to do the cash flow analysis, but if this liability was fabricated, then it would be trivial to catch it using the combination of the balance sheet, P&L, and cash flow. That's accounting 101 stuff and there are dozens and dozens of sharp kids poring over these hoping to be the one to catch the next Enron, so I'm pretty confident that this particular number isn't fabricated. But bottom line is that the data is in the financials. Why in the world would you trust some jackass on SeekingAlpha with an agenda to push or deduce from pure assumption, when you can just look at the source code on EDGAR? They would have to be lying in the big 3 of their financials for that assertion to be true. And not just the "aggressive accounting" type of lying that Enron was guilty of but pure fabrication of a straightforward, easy to verify number that a whole bunch of Tesla employees and auditors would have access to and would all face significant jail time over if they were in fact lying. So sorry, but I'm a big believer in Occam's razor and the inability of more than 2 people to keep a secret, so if it's between taking the word of a jackass on SeekingAlpha or everything I just pointed out with everything all those people have to lose and nothing to gain for most of them who are just pogue accountants, I'm going to give the presumption of innocence to Tesla on this one thing. And again point out that pushing back on something that's so easily shown to be spurious weakens all the legitimate arguments. If the Q-1 deposits come back significantly lower and that's not accounted for by actual deliveries, then we can use that as a data point that it is. Until then, all the above us a pure assume, of the type that does make an ass out of u and me. TL;DR: Read the financials, don't listen to jackasses on SeekingAlpha.
1. So you are assuming there will never be another Enron, because they are afraid of being discovered? How naive... 2. That jackass has a law degree and handling a 1 billion dollar portfolio. But the main reason I trust him is because his arguments and numbers make sense, and Elon's don't. 3. There are guys on SE who can predict Teslas numbers better than any analysts. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4165662-1b-portfolio-manager-tesla-reminds-enron If you ever wondered about Elon's nature, read the comments...
Not assuming that at all. I'm a student of Enron, I happen to work in the energy industry and am fascinated by what happened there. I would also not be at all surprised if the SCTY portion of Tesla fell afoul of many of the same things that hit Enron. I don't disagree with you at all on Tesla being a house of cards. But this number you're stuck on, deposits...you're simply wrong on this one, and you're just weakening your position by sticking with it. I just showed you the financials, either you claim that that number is faked or your assertion is wrong, those are the only two options here. Are you or are you not claiming that Tesla fabricated the deposits number on the liability section of their financials? If not, focus on something else! If so, you'll really need to justify that because it's a damn serious accusation.
There is nothing serious about Elon's numbers or predictions. "We will have 2 other Gigafactories." "We will never need another fund raising." If he is not serious, why should I be?
we can do this all day..implication on capital raise was "not for this year" Q3, Q4, not forever!! i hate to be so nitpicky, but jeeze..u are on fulltilt
Nope, my quote is from 2012: "Tesla does not need to ever raise another funding round," I think they had 5 money infusions since then, but who counts them anyway??? Apparently not you... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1073019_tesla-motors-wont-need-more-money-says-ceo-musk He also lied 2 years ago just a few months before the junk bond issue: http://fortune.com/2016/10/27/elon-musk-tesla-money/
ok, u get a point on that one. from your link: "Tesla does not need to ever raise another funding round," he said in response to a question on the company's cash position, liquidity, and rate of cash burn. "We may want to do so, but we are in a strong cash position, and we don't need to." clearly he is "loose" with his remarks and has a lot of fun. Chanos danced around the fraud thing this morning..and i'm still laughing about the Mar's not having an extradition treaty quip. I think Chanos is sweating bullets anyway. he really threw everything he had at Musk...all of which is not gonna happen imo.