Trump Tax Reform - a total squeeze on middle class W2 workers

Overnight · Nov 3, 2017

zdreg said:
you can change your income: don't like being discriminated against, stop working; problem solved.
_____________
zdreg: then learn how to game the welfare system. you will be pleasantly surprised how well you can live without working.

you were the one who suggested a solution to the income discrimination problem, stop working. I merely suggested how to make yourself more comfortable after ditching work.
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I eat Kraft Mac n' Cheese each night so I don't have to worry about these issues. Food is one of the biggest expenses for every human on earth.

Can sometimes get it for $0.75 per box USD at certain retailers (plus milk and butter cost), and that meal will last you for a few days. Hehehee! ( I am being facetious here).

Sig · Nov 3, 2017

It's funny that the people I've blocked are so predictable I can tell just by your all responses to them who they probably are, even though I can't see their posts!

zdreg · Nov 3, 2017

Sig said:
It's funny that the people I've blocked are so predictable I can tell just by your all responses to them who they probably are, even though I can't see their posts!
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little siggie would be clever if he could figure out who has blocked him.

jj1111 · Nov 3, 2017

I was pointing out the false equivalence Scat used.

but you're welcome to your own interpretation.

zdreg said:
you can change your income: don't like being discriminated against, stop working; problem solved.
_____________
zdreg: then learn how to game the welfare system. you will be pleasantly surprised how well you can live without working.

you were the one who suggested a solution to the income discrimination problem, stop working. I merely suggested how to make yourself more comfortable after ditching work.
More...

Overnight · Nov 3, 2017

zdreg said:
little siggie would be clever if he could figure out who has blocked him.
More...

I'll know if he has blocked me if he does not respond to Kraft Mac & Cheese. That ideology cannot be resisted by humans. So if he does not reply to that, he is an alien from Alphabetagammasilly planet

jj1111 · Nov 3, 2017

Sig said:
It's funny that the people I've blocked are so predictable I can tell just by your all responses to them who they probably are, even though I can't see their posts!
More...

dude, excellent discussion you and newwurld are having btw. pretty insightful.

jj1111 · Nov 3, 2017

the elimination of the medical expense deduction is a head scratcher. unless I'm reading it wrong, cannot deduct greater than 10% agi with this bill.

sss12 · Nov 3, 2017

Sig said:
Obviously everyone will manipulate their definition of "middle class" to support their side of the issue. If you've got medical problems you're f*cked no matter what class with this. If you live in a place with high property tax you're losing money no matter what class if you own a house. If you care about debt, $1.5 trillion is a bit of money regardless of class.

On the other hand, as a 1%er who owns my company I am estimating my taxes will go down by at least 30%,. Not marginal, this is the overall reduction in tax I have to pay when I take into account the elimination of AMT and the money I would save through changing my business structure to a pass-through and getting a 25% rate on 30% of my income. We're talking tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars less I and people like me are paying, while someone making under $86k saves a few hundred bucks at most!

I and people like me are the last people in the world who need this tax break, and even for purely selfish reasons would far rather that money from me and people like me went to potential customers in the middle class, or we just maintained this system that's giving us 4% unemployment and the largest economy in the world, and a 17 year low unemployment level without trying to "fix" it. And the most telling thing is that before this tax cut I put all the extra money my company made back into growing the company, which mainly consisted of hiring people, because that's what the tax structure incentivised me to do. Now I'm incentivised to pay more back to myself earlier, which I'm going to use to buy a better French sailboat. How does that incentive structure help the economy again?

That said, eliminating depreciation and allowing expensing is a spectacularly good idea if you want to incentivize investment. And although meaningless in the grand scheme I also like the fact that they made the joint filing numbers all twice the single filing numbers; making it slightly less by some completely arbitrary amount always bugged me.
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I did not say it was optimal and what else was expected from the current Republican administration ?

Obviously you are right in that the benefits skew towards for the top. But
as you know the premise for the break on the 1% ers is the theoretical growth stimulation from the reinvested tax savings. Some business owners will keep growing their company and hiring. (Didn't know the French were known for their sailboats.)

And of course they had to "fix" it, it is what they do.

sss12 · Nov 3, 2017

Sig said:
Obviously everyone will manipulate their definition of "middle class" to support their side of the issue. If you've got medical problems you're f*cked no matter what class with this. If you live in a place with high property tax you're losing money no matter what class if you own a house. If you care about debt, $1.5 trillion is a bit of money regardless of class.

On the other hand, as a 1%er who owns my company I am estimating my taxes will go down by at least 30%,. Not marginal, this is the overall reduction in tax I have to pay when I take into account the elimination of AMT and the money I would save through changing my business structure to a pass-through and getting a 25% rate on 30% of my income. We're talking tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars less I and people like me are paying, while someone making under $86k saves a few hundred bucks at most!

I and people like me are the last people in the world who need this tax break, and even for purely selfish reasons would far rather that money from me and people like me went to potential customers in the middle class, or we just maintained this system that's giving us 4% unemployment and the largest economy in the world, and a 17 year low unemployment level without trying to "fix" it. And the most telling thing is that before this tax cut I put all the extra money my company made back into growing the company, which mainly consisted of hiring people, because that's what the tax structure incentivised me to do. Now I'm incentivised to pay more back to myself earlier, which I'm going to use to buy a better French sailboat. How does that incentive structure help the economy again?

That said, eliminating depreciation and allowing expensing is a spectacularly good idea if you want to incentivize investment. And although meaningless in the grand scheme I also like the fact that they made the joint filing numbers all twice the single filing numbers; making it slightly less by some completely arbitrary amount always bugged me.
More...

Also...why under the proposed code are you incentivised to take it now ? Just the drop in the effective rate in your specific situation ? Thanks

Sig · Nov 4, 2017

sss12 said:
I did not say it was optimal and what else was expected from the current Republican administration ?

Obviously you are right in that the benefits skew towards for the top. But
as you know the premise for the break on the 1% ers is the theoretical growth stimulation from the reinvested tax savings. Some business owners will keep growing their company and hiring. (Didn't know the French were known for their sailboats.)

And of course they had to "fix" it, it is what they do.
More...

Something like 80% of sailboats are made in France, crazy little known fact!