Trump says troop sacrifice meaningless

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Here4money, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. smallfil


    The Kurds should have known better. 1,000 US troops would not have been able to hold off the Turkish army. Too few troops to secure the area. I agree with the withdrawal of the US troops. However, what the US should have done is ordered the Syrian Democrat Forces to turn over the ISIS terrorists to Syria for trial under their Sharia Law. Then, US forces should have again ordered the Kurds to give up control over their territories to Syrian forces. That would have pit Syria, Hezbollah, Russia and the Kurds against Turkey. Would have been more of an even match. Leaving promptly, without a good exit strategy is wrong on all levels!
    #31     Oct 7, 2019
  2. Here4money



    Donald Trump got "rolled" by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a National Security Council source with direct knowledge of the discussions told Newsweek.

    In a scheduled phone call on Sunday afternoon between President Trump and President Erdogan, Trump said he would withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria. The phone call was scheduled after Turkey announced it was planning to invade Syria, and hours after Erdogan reinforced his army units at the Syrian-Turkish border and issued his strongest threat to launch a military incursion, according to the National Security Council official to whom Newsweek spoke on condition of anonymity.

    The U.S. withdrawal plays into the hands of the Islamic State group, Damascus and Moscow, and the announcement left Trump's own Defense Department "completely stunned," said Pentagon officials. Turkey, like the United States, wants regime change in Syria. Russia and Iran support the Assad regime.

    "President Trump was definitely out-negotiated and only endorsed the troop withdraw to make it look like we are getting something—but we are not getting something," the National Security Council source told Newsweek. "The U.S. national security has entered a state of increased danger for decades to come because the president has no spine and that's the bottom line."

    According to the NSC official, who had first-hand knowledge of the phone call, Trump did not endorse any Turkish military operation against Kurdish Forces, but also did not threaten economic sanctions during the phone call if Turkey decided to undertake offensive operations.

    "When the bigger guy [United States] moves aside in the playground, they [Turkey] get to beat on the smaller guy [Syrian Defense Forces] and this is not about the U.S. being the world police," the National Security Council source told Newsweek.

    "We are telling the world, we will use you and then throw you away," the official added. "It's not like they don't have a television in Asia, in Africa, and South America."
    #32     Oct 7, 2019
  3. easymon1


    #33     Oct 7, 2019
  4. Here4money


    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
    #34     Oct 7, 2019
    easymon1 likes this.
  5. easymon1


    mr h4m,
    we agree there,


    Kurdistan was erased from the world's maps after World War I when the Allied Powers carved up the Middle East and denied the Kurds a nation-state. More than twenty million Kurds live in parts of Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria. Throughout the 20th century their struggles for political and cultural autonomy were opposed by the region's countries and the Kurds were often used as pawns in regional politics.

    The Kurds' plight most recently captured the world's attention in 1991 following the end of the Gulf War. Television around the world showed images of northern Iraq's Kurds fleeing Saddam Hussein's Iraq through the mountains of Turkey and Iran. Since the 1920s, negotiations between Iraq's Kurds and the government in Baghdad have always broken down over issues of Kurdish independence, and the Kurds' wish to control the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and to have their own militia.

    In America's dealings with Saddam Hussein and Iraq, Iraq's Kurds have been a tragic side show. For decades, they looked to the U.S. for support in their struggle against Saddam's government. Washington's response has been classic realpolitik - using the Kurds when it wanted to hurt Saddam and then dropping them when their usefulness had run out. [See the chronology]

    For this FRONTLINE report, "The Survival of Saddam," producer Greg Barker interviewed key Kurdish leaders and senior American officials who discuss the long, bitter relationship between the U.S. and the Kurds of northern Iraq. Here are those interviews:
    #35     Oct 7, 2019
  6. easymon1


    #36     Oct 7, 2019
  7. Bugenhagen


    #37     Oct 7, 2019
  8. vanzandt


    So we're abandoning the Kurds to bring 1000 troops home and save money. With 11K Isis fighters in prison there... pissed off Isis fighters too I'd guess.

    Those 1000 soldiers were there not because of their ability to ward off an attack.... they were there as symbolic presence.... and don't dare attack them... or else. 1000 is more than enough to accomplish that.

    So we have:
    35K troops in Germany
    13K in Italy
    9K in the UK
    55K in Japan
    25K in S Korea.

    If its about money and bringing folks home.... there's plenty of room elsewhere.

    There's more here than meets the eye.
    #38     Oct 7, 2019
    El OchoCinco likes this.
  9. Wallet


    Interesting take on today

    Luongo: Are These The Five Tweets That Change The World?

    Why do these tweets change everything?

    Because it signals that Trump is...

    1. Ascendant in his own White House.

    2. Realizing nothing good comes from further escalation

    3. Not getting re-elected if he’s in quagmires around the world

    4. Washing his hands of the Arab infighting

    5. Responding to the realpolitik of a vulnerable Saudi Arabia

    6. Understanding that Syria is an Obama-era mess which is now unwinnable.

    7. Telling Israel what the limits of his support is.

    8. Informing our allies the U.S. is not subsidizing their adventures anymore.

    9. Notifying the Neocons that he’s done making deals they won’t keep.

    10. Resetting the conflicts in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan as unwinnable by neocon/Israeli standards.
    I could add a lot more to that list. A. Lot. More. Because in context of the last few days these five tweets are a bombshell which blows open the possibilities of a much different future foreign policy from the U.S. if Trump survives this ridiculous push to impeach him.

    Trump didn’t do this as a response to impeachment proceedings in the House. If anything he’s daring them to impeach him before he tears down their plans.

    These tweets could be seen coming for weeks. The collapse of Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel undermines most of the reasons for the U.S. staying in Syria in the first place.

    With Netanyahu fighting for his political and social life, Trump had to see it was time to cut bait, because he’d already over fished that river. Israeli politics could be frozen for a lot longer than the next couple of weeks.

    In fact, no less than two articles in Haaretz this weekend confirm that Israel knows that 1) Saudi Arabia has to sue for peace with Iran and the Houthis and 2) that Trump will not come to their rescue.

    Netanyahu made the mistake of thinking that Trump’s love of Israel outweighed that of the U.S. That was a bad bet. Whatever Trump’s faults are, he’s a patriot.

    Trump was more than willing to go along with Israel’s wants if it meant the benefits to the U.S. were worth it.

    Trump wanted the world safe from ISIS and Iran. The former was easy, stay out of Russia’s and Iraq’s way, let them clean things up. The latter was never achievable.

    Because it was always going to come down to war or no war. Netanyahu always thought they could manipulate Trump the Rube into a war on their behalf when the time came.

    They didn’t. They’re pissed. They are coming after him. And he’s bailing on them for the good of the U.S. and, frankly, the world.

    Iran/Russia/China always knew where the bluff would be called. They played the game out to the bitter end. And Trump walked away from the Abyss, smartly. There is no other policy at this point than reversing course and letting the instigators, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Europe and former U.S. administrations figure it out for themselves.

    Trump is not neutered by this impeachment, if anything it is emboldening him.


    Because he has nothing to lose and everything to gain here. His fundraising doesn’t need Sheldon Adelson or AIPAC, it’s off the charts good and pulling out of Syria will only boost his approval ratings.

    If he beats the impeachment he gets to go after his accusers without reservation and finally do what he promised as a candidate. If he doesn’t he’s done anyway.

    Playing the impeachment card was the wrong move. It removed all of Trump’s shackles. It said there was no more room for deals. Now, it’s war.

    And that makes things a lot simpler.

    The truth is the attacks in Saudi Arabia by the Houthis now have people overtly wondering if the House of Saud will last another year. It’s not likely.

    And Trump realizes, as proven by these five tweets, that U.S. presence there precludes solving the region’s problems. We are the reason these people who hate each other don’t work out their differences.

    Iran and the Houthis will step up their game against the Saudis unless they back down. Trump pulling out of Syria makes it clear he doesn’t have their backs anymore.

    The message is clear, “Get started folks.”

    The U.S./Saudi/Israeli alliance looks pretty pitiful from a realpolitik perspective right now.

    I’ve been consistent in my criticism of Trump’s foreign policy because this was always going to be the outcome. The U.S. was always going to be forced to retreat and leave our ‘allies’ in the lurch.

    Maintaining an untenable presence in Syria, pushing Iran, Iraq and Lebanon financially to their breaking point, and doubling down on support of Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman after l’affair Kashoggi and the War in Yemen while upping sanctions on Russia and starting a trade war with China were all mistakes.

    They would do nothing but unite the U.S.’s opposition in defiance to fight an asymmetric, hybrid war of attrition. They would have no other choice. Trump named the names of those that need to sort the Middle East out, they are all there, except Israel.

    But this is all about Israel.

    And their apologists wasted zero time taking to the airwaves and the Twitterverse to howl at the unfairness of it all. Ye gods even Nikki Haley came out from behind the counter at Waffle House to complain about it.

    They know that if Trump survives the next few weeks Israel will be the policy-takers here not the policy-makers.

    Moreover, Trump finally put the world on notice that the Brzezinski/Wolfowitz Doctrine is dead while he’s in the White House. Sowing chaos so no one can control The Heartland is not his job.

    The focus will be on how we are abandoning the Kurds. They’ll play the humanitarian angle to the hilt because they have nothing else. But the YPG was offered protection by the Assad government multiple times over the past two years and they willingly hitched their wagon to the U.S., knowing full well that Trump wasn’t on board with this plan.

    And Putin pulls the strings on Erdogan. Putin wants ISIS destroyed more than Trump, because the whole point of the Syria Operation was to give them a country and then point them at Russia.

    This point will be lost in the pearl clutching that will follow in the thirty-minute news cycles like syringes full of botox follow Nancy Pelosi.

    Given these five tweets and the implications for them among the people most exposed to what comes next, what I said recently about the coup against him being real is looking prophetic now.

    The question is still whether there are around fifteen people in the Senate that can be convinced to get rid of him. The first five are already signed up – Graham, Rubio, Romney, Collins, Murkowski.

    If Trump is expecting to be impeached and convicted he certainly isn’t acting like it. As I said over the weekend, he’s too much of a street-fighter and troll to go quietly.

    Moreover, he wouldn’t have Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Greece setting up alternate supply lines to the Balkans preparing for a post-Turkey NATO if he wasn’t in charge.

    Regardless of whether he survives this or not Donald Trump just threw down a gauntlet that finally blows open the hypocrisy of U.S. Middle East policy.

    And I don’t think the genie goes back in this bottle.
    #39     Oct 7, 2019
  10. Here4money


    Last I read was 240 in the area. The 10k prisoners will likely go free as the Kurds flee the prisons. Unless they go full final solution on the prisoners.
    full retard; not you, the article
    #40     Oct 7, 2019