Trump Plays Dangerous Game Of Chicken With Trade Tariffs

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tom B, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Be careful, you might get one of our resident deplorables upset! :D
     
    #201     Jun 11, 2018
  2. Trump's approach will have no effect on the trade defect (goods AND services) as he just wants to play favors instead of tackling the global trade defect. So he will punish China or a European ally for standing up to him by rewarding another nation with the business like Vietnam as said below. Great, changes nothing but gets him a political reach-around at enormous cost.


    4 reasons slashing the trade gap with China won't boost the U.S.


    President Donald Trump has focused on reducing the trade deficit with China as a means to create American manufacturing jobs and improve the U.S. economy. But most economists point to a problem with that strategy: The purchasing and savings behavior of Americans is the real cause of the trade deficit, and even slashing it won't bring back lost jobs.

    "The perception that the trade deficit is bad is a flawed perception," said Gregory Daco, chief economist at Oxford Economics. "If you have an environment where you are investing more than you are saving, you will have a trade deficit. It's a reflection of a lack of savings in your economy. We are spending more than we save, and we are importing parts of that spending."

    In 2017, Americans bought nearly $506 billion in goods from China, which bought about $130 billion in goods from the U.S. That equates to a U.S. trade gap with China of $375 billion. But that's just in goods. The U.S. also sells a lot of services to China. When they're factored in, the trade deficit with China looks more like $337 billion a year.

    The Trump administration has said it's putting proposed tariffs on around $150 billion of Chinese goods on hold as the two countries take a step toward shrinking China's trade surplus with the U.S. Still, economists point to four reasons that reducing the trade deficit with China may not boost the U.S. economy and create jobs.

    Americans spend far more than they save
    The U.S. trade deficit with China is a reflection of the spending and saving habits of households, businesses and the government, economists said. Americans spend far more of their money than they save. A lot of that spending goes toward buying cheap imports, from toys and computers to cellphones.

    "All the trade deficit tells us is whether we are consuming more than we are producing or producing more than we are consuming. That's it," said Gordon Hanson, a professor of economics at the University of California San Diego. "It's about our decision on how much we save and how much we spend. All the negotiations with China in the world are not going to move U.S. savings around."

    The American savings rate as a percent of GDP is 18 percent, one of the lowest in the world, according to the World Bank. The Chinese, on the other hand, have one of the highest savings rates in the world, at about 50 percent of GDP. If Americans saved more money and spent less, the trade deficit would shrink.

    U.S. companies sent jobs abroad
    Many American companies moved manufacturing overseas, including to China, in the 1980s and '90s to take advantage of other countries' lower wages. At the same time, China began making more goods and selling them to the U.S., which eventually caused a trade deficit.

    Americans concluded that it was the trade deficit that caused the loss of jobs, but that was a false correlation, economists said.

    "It was just happenstance that the bigger U.S. trade deficits coincided with the loss of manufacturing jobs," Hanson said. "Had savings rates in the two economies been the same, the trade deficits would have never materialized, but U.S. factories would have still faced all this greater import competition. We still would have seen areas of the country lose manufacturing jobs."

    What matters is the global trade deficit
    China is now saying it will buy more U.S. products. But that won't reduce the overall trade deficit if the U.S. then sells fewer goods to other countries.


    "If we reduce our deficit with China but increase our deficit with Vietnam, it won't make any difference," said Robert Scott, senior economist and director of trade and manufacturing policy research at the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington-based think tank. "What we really have to do is reduce our global trade deficit."

    Companies can only produce so much of a given product or service, so if the U.S. sells more goods to China, it may have to sell less to other areas of the world such as Canada or the European Union. In that case, selling more to China may not result in a smaller overall trade deficit.

    Where will the resources come from?
    Tariffs won't shrink the trade deficit, economists said. "Tariffs don't reduce the trade deficit because tariffs tend to not just reduce U.S. imports, they also tend to reduce U.S. exports," Hanson said.

    When tariffs are placed on overseas goods coming into the country, the U.S. will step up production to make those goods at home. But where would it get the resources to make those goods? If they come from the U.S., demand for resources will drive up costs, causing consumers to pay more for finished goods. The additional production drives up the cost of land, labor and other inputs for manufacturing.

    "We've then lost competitiveness to the rest of the world as a result of that increased demand for domestic production for replacing imports," Hanson said. "It's a pretty universal belief among international economists that changes in tariffs just don't do that much for the trade deficit. If anything, the result is neutral."
    "
    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GNS.ICTR.ZS?view=chart&year_high_desc=false

    The UK is not in a pretty situation either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    #202     Jun 11, 2018
  3. dozu888

    dozu888

    empty one liners may sound funny to certain people, but they are still empty. you will be lucky to have half the energy and mental clarity at age 72.... you want to talk mental health? can't beat that Pelosi woman you have there.
     
    #203     Jun 11, 2018
  4. d08

    d08

    Are you capable of reading a paragraph and at least understanding it?
    What I said was - other countries committed to an alliance with the US, doing something FOR the US government they didn't need to. Now, when it's time to return the favor, it's "I don't know you". Or perhaps you're a goldfish and your memory doesn't go beyond a few days.
     
    #204     Jun 11, 2018
  5. dozu888

    dozu888

    this article is so retarded I don't even know where to begin first.

    can't fix the global deficit all at once... bilateral agreements are the key.. with individual countries.. one by one, that is what Trump is doing.

    Vietnam - manufacturing capacity is not something that moves overnight.

    Tariff is not the goal. the goal is reciprocity, free trade.
     
    #205     Jun 11, 2018
  6. dozu888

    dozu888

    before you call me a gold fish, get your facts straight... who has been doing who favors?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-share-breakdown-country-2017-2
     
    #206     Jun 11, 2018
  7. Sprout

    Sprout


    Here's a transcription of one of his speeches. If this is the definition of mental clarity to you, then we really are in the dawn of a post-truth era.

    Transcription:

    “Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s true!—but when you’re a conservative Republican they try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right—who would have thought?), but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners—now it used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us.”
     
    #207     Jun 11, 2018
  8. You don't understand the article do you? And I chose the simplest one I could find.. OK.. Probably did not read it and just spout a few fragments you think you did grasp. This is called the Dunning Kruger effect, not knowing what you don't know so being supremely confident instead of cautious. This might be expanded to the Dunning-Kruger & Trump effect.

    Trump is giving the illusion of change but it is domestic behavior, increasing savings over investment that makes the difference.

    Free trade could make it all a lot worse and fast.

    If you don't like it do some searching, you will find similar from the CATO institute and many others.
     
    #208     Jun 11, 2018
  9. dozu888

    dozu888

    what is the context? who is the audience? this is quite typical of him when he talks casually while making multiple references to things... nothing wrong here. reading transcript is probably the easiest way to get out of context... watch his live interviews/speeches is better... you don't build multi billion dollar real estate empires with mental sharpness... laughable that the left even tried to take him down on the mental capacity... the who attempt just fizzled out... people are not blind.. they see a sharp negotiator they know it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
    #209     Jun 11, 2018
  10. dozu888

    dozu888

    the deficit is a multi facet issue. domestic behavior is only one facet... tariff and non-tariff barriers are another... one more reason this article is retarded.
     
    #210     Jun 11, 2018