Trump plans to sign EO ending birthright citizenship

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Cuddles, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. piezoe

    piezoe

    Why not re-think this. Regardless of the merits of your position regarding birthright citizenship it would be dangerous for congress to let such an E.O. go unchallenged. * There is a better way. A California District judge ruled that even children born to illegals are citizens by birth. This is a straight reading of the constitution. I haven't read the opinion, but it would seem to ignore the way children born to foreign diplomats while they are stationed in the U.S. are treated. I think that on appeal the district courts ruling would likely be overturned. Particularly considering the courts present make-up. Any such order E.O. by Trump, however, must be immediately challenged by Congress. The California District Court ruling should be moved through the appeals court to the Supreme Court to settle this issue. I am confident that the California court's decision will be overturned as it makes absolutely no sense. More difficult is the question of citizenship for a child born to one legal and one illegal parent. There my guess is that the child would be found to be a natural born citizen.

    Regardless we are in grave danger if we allow the president to set a new precedent of interpreting our constitution via tweet and E.O. We must absolutely not allow that.

    ______________________
    *I imagine this is no different than the other outrageous things Trumps says he will do but doesn't follow through on. I can't imagine that White House lawyers would not put a stop to such an order.
     
    #51     Oct 30, 2018
    Slartibartfast likes this.
  2. UsualName

    UsualName

    I don’t dismiss this. I’m totally open on this issue. I think Trump is going uphill in it but there is a case of merit here.
     
    #52     Oct 30, 2018
  3. exGOPer

    exGOPer

    By one of the few you mean one of 34

    For the record, the following countries recognize jus soli(Birthright Citizenship):
    1 Antigua and Barbuda
    2 Argentina
    3 Barbados
    4 Belize
    5 Bolivia
    6 Brazil
    7 Canada
    8 Chile
    9 Cuba
    10 Dominica
    11 Ecuador
    12 El Salvador
    13 Fiji
    14 Grenada
    15 Guatemala
    16 Guyana
    17 Honduras
    18 Jamaica
    19 Mexico
    20 Nicaragua
    21 Panama
    22 Paraguay
    23 Peru
    24 Saint Kitts and Nevis
    25 Saint Lucia
    26 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
    27 Trinidad and Tobago
    28 United States
    29 Uruguay
    30 Venezuela

    Also US is one of few with electoral college, why not eliminate it as well? Oh, no?
     
    #53     Oct 30, 2018
    Slartibartfast likes this.
  4. Tsing Tao

    Tsing Tao

    This is a very flimsy interpretation. The subject to the jurisdiction thereof means that all persons born are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. It doesn't mean other otherwise imply that persons not subject to the jurisdiction thereof who then go on to have babies means their babies aren't subject and therefore citizens.

    Sorry, but I disagree.
     
    #54     Oct 30, 2018
    Cuddles likes this.
  5. I don't think Trump can abolish or change the 14th amendment by EO, nor do I think he should. Beyond the obvious challenges in the courts, EO's aren't permanent enough.
    The 14th amendment absolutely needs to be amended. The "anchor baby" non-sense needs to go. Congress should address this, but never will, gutless cowards that they are. We're stuck with it. Better idea and more do-able to come up with a immigration policy that actually gets enforced. Of course, that'll take some guts too, something which is lacking in D.C.
     
    #55     Oct 30, 2018
    piezoe likes this.

  6. We dont really know. This issue has been hands off and untouchable for so long that there is not sufficient case law to even flesh some of this stuff out.

    For example, if I were to accept as true your argument, then I would then be arguing that the children of foreign diplomats are automatically deemed citizens which- my belief anyway- is that they are not based on congressional action or congressional acceptance of international law. But if "jurisdiction" simply means being born here and their right flows directly from the constitution, then by what authority does congress deny them citizenship? Apparently because Congress believed that "jurisdiction" requirements are not met simply by being born here.

    Congress undoubtedly has the right to grant citizenship in more circumstances than the constitution specifies, but it does not have the authority to deny citizenship where given by the constitution. Where it is "given" or not remains to be defined.
     
    #56     Oct 30, 2018
  7. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    With respect to the USA, you probably don't want to get into those numbers.
     
    #57     Oct 30, 2018
  8. But as discussed earlier, it is not clear that his actions are a changing of the constitution or merely the implementation of the proper interpretation of it.

    That remains to be seen.
     
    #58     Oct 30, 2018
  9. UsualName

    UsualName

    Like I said this is an uphill climb for your side because it is so long standing as understood buuuuuuuuut I think the proper argument in this case is congress has set the parameters for jurisdiction through the various immigration laws it has passed.

    So the argument is not whether the 14th amendment grants citizenship but what are the parameters of the jurisdiction and does congress have authority over those parameters.

    Also, this would have to take into account all of the various non discriminatory laws that apply as well.
     
    #59     Oct 30, 2018
  10. UsualName

    UsualName

    Try looking at it from an angle of who can regulate the jurisdiction in question, not the citizenship.
     
    #60     Oct 30, 2018