No offense RCG, you really seem like a cool person, but these anecdotal claims are just too much. None of these Gann accolades have ever demonstrated their market ability that I have seen, and I have seen a lot. It's always, come to my class, this is what i did( ad shown on charts) or I know someone who does it. It kinda reminds me of Scientology where each step only leads to the next and one gets no where.
I never been to a Gann class, nor have I offered to u to go to one. Your Neo-Gann channels stopped working because the only tool u ever used was a spiral chart. You have been unable to find a technical way to trade.....actually you have been unable to ACCEPT a technical way to trade. Prof and a few others would give you serious clues that you were amiss. There were times that I myself wondered if you read anything other than the instructions on a gann wheel. No Surf, you for some reason have become like the pitcher who can no longer find the plate, and now all of baseball sucks. Tell Mr. Covel I am still waiting on his questions.
I wasn't referring to you in the remark about the class or seminar. I am well versed in Gann and actually own some original material as historic artifacts, not trading guidance. Not to mention a small portion of j Paul getty's astrologer--Evangeline Adams library. I was once a fervent believer, then my trading and belief system evolved. Complication for complexity sake is what Gann is. There is no secret to trading and trading doesn't suck. Wrong beliefs and hero worship sucks when applied to finance. There are edges, just not in looking at the past and thinking it's predicting the future.
This is an article I wrote for daily speculation back in 2007. I promised Baron I would not post a link, but a google search will find the original piece..... It was encouraged by elite trader and the market masters residing here. Enjoy!! Did I call the 2008 crash via my Guru Intensity Index? I know it was my best year ever in the market.... Ask yourself, what category do these ET Gurus fall into? The Proliferation and Growth of Guru Culture Gurus have always found fertile ground in the financial markets. The early 20th century brought us esoteria like Gann and his geometric lines combined with astrology. It also supposedly brought common sense gurus like Livermore with his simple rules and pivot points. Later on in the century, even more bizarre market seers arose, and Joe Granville comes to mind. One of my earliest memories of the market is reading about Granville promoting his "Books of Granville" dressed as the Biblical Moses. In fact, my first hands on exposure to the market was after I met a financial astrologer while fishing back in 1990. He claimed to have called the crash of 1987 and profited wildly by buying way out of the money OEX puts with his college fund. He became obsessed with repeating this feat and astrology in general. I remember his purchase of J. Paul Getty's astrologer Evangeline Adams library containing all types of esoteric tomes. Needless to say, to the best of my knowledge, this story does not have a good ending. Recently, I have noticed a proliferation of gurus trolling the internet for memberships in various chat room type websites or seminars. They are generally traders of stock index products like the mini SP500, the mini Dow contract and the Russell 2000 mini product. They all have some type of indicator, method, or system that will enable their subscribers to easily extract profits by just following along. Some claim to use logic, others write in such an obscure manner that just about anything can be read into their words. I have divided the Neo Gurus into three main types: 1. The plain talking regular Joe: This type claims to have been just like you, prior to finding the holy grail, which due to his altruistic nature will share with you for a small fee. 2. The Esoteric Intellectual: This type of guru was never like his followers existing on a higher plane. However, he is generous and is gladly sharing his knowledge for a stipend of what you will earn by joining his flock. 3. The Mystic: This type, although related to #2, is very different. He claims supernatural chart reading ability and general future reading skills. My contention is that this recent proliferation of market gurus is an indication of a near short term top. The last of the public is being drawn in to lubricate the machine for a rapid descent. The only unknown is when. This is an article I wrote for Daily Speculations in 2007
Surf's ego is only surpassed by his unhealthy fixation with this site. He would be an amazing person if he was actually as important or intelligent as he thought he was.
Basquiat: Thank you for making your views known. They are perfectly normal. Others than those who think as you do have come to different conclusions. They are perfectly nornal as well. Is there possiblilty that these others could come to think as you do? No possibility whatsoever. Could you move on and get to higher ground that they attained? That is your question and whether you can seek to go through the work to be in this small minority. There is nothing that is not in the realm of possibility. Doing the intellectual work to get such an exceptional and superior viewpoint is not something the man in the street is able to grasp or process. His mind is simply not that developed. Look at RCG as a person who is making an effort and he has grown to be in a place where he can advance the foundations laid by others in less "tooled up" times. Now, we have an electronic world that can provide much tooling for the information supplied by markets. It is within his reach and, apparently, not yours. To watch another, Covel, who is in your boat, will be a good experience for you. Covel spun his wheels on a "hazardous journey " not edited out by his publisher for 8 years. covel never knew when he was being bullshiited or kidded. He rewrote both into a text as you can read. Now he is using a "no nothing" word, clarify, and another in the know is asking him to grow up and conduct himself reasonably. Will you be able to conduct yorself reasonably for your benefit? You have no more chance than Covel.
No question Jack, you are one smart person. I mean that with respect. Regardless of intellect, I believe you and your flock are on the wrong road in regards to the financial markets. You and the other gurus, may make sense within the parameters of the belief system--- just like any religion. But when applied to the real world no longer function. This remains my experience and understanding to today. Nothing had been presented ever to change these facts.
Rule 1 Amount of capital to use: Divide your capital into equal parts and never risk more than one-tenth of your capital on any one trade. -Ok, its called fixed % position sizing Rule 2 Use stop loss orders. Always protect a trade when you make it with a stop loss order 3 to 5 points away. hmm 3-5 may have worked back in the day, but today we use volatility as a measure and no a fixed #, anyways this rule is fundamental so no rocket science info here Rule 3 Never overtrade. This would be violating your capital rule. fundamental principal Rule 4 â Never let a profit run into a loss. After you once have a profit of 3 points or more, raise your stop loss order so that you will have no loss of capital My interpretation of this is that once a trade is 1 stop loss length in your favor move your stop to break even. This is another good rule Once again many price action specialist will say you place your stop under a swing low or swing high, and not some fixed # problem nowdays is teaching a computer how to determine a swing high or low. Rule 5 â Do not buck the trend. Never buy or sell if you are not sure of the trend according to your charts. Very good , its why I am writing in this thread. Rule 6 â When in doubt, get out, and don't get in when in doubt. Discretionary, gut feeling, skill?? Rule 7 â Trade only in active stocks. Keep out of slow, dead ones. By active stocks he means strongly trending (again trendfollowing) and liquid ( it takes volume to move the market) which helps liquidity and slippage Rule 8â Equal distribution of risk. Trade only 4 or 5 stocks, if possible. Avoid tying up all of your capital in any one stock. W.D. Gann advocated limited diversification in an interview: I could go over the history of Scales, Livermore, Durant, Ryan and the balance of the great men of Wall Street, and in analyzing their trading, the one weak point would be found in all of them, they diversified too much. Did not speculate in one commodity or a few special stocks, but spread all over the board. The result was that they had too many irons in the fire and when one thing started to go wrong and begin to lose money, they would invariably get out of stocks and commodities in which they were making money and keep those that were going against them. Hmm, many many fund managers will disagree. A man couldn't focus on many things at one time back in the day, but the computers today can. Rule 9â Never limit your orders or fix a buying or selling price. Trade at the market. I can see this rule be a trend following approach to market entry , as you enter when the trend is up and not on the dip. Buying dips is a very difficult thing to do. Rule 10â Dont close your trades without a good reason. Follow up with a stop loss order to protect your profits. No shit. But emotions get in the way. Rule 11â Accumulate a surplus. After you have made a series of successful trades, put some money into surplus account to be used only in emergency or in times of panic. Good rule. Rule 12â Never buy just to get a dividend. They are important. Just ask Buffett. Rule 13 Never average a loss. This is one of the worst mistakes a trader can make. Very good rule..! Rule 14 Never get out of the market just because you have lost patience or get into the market because you are anxious from waiting. yup. Rule 15 Avoid taking small profits and big losses. Trend following does the exact opposite. 16â Never cancel a stop loss order after you have placed it at the time you made a trade. Rule 17â Avoid getting in and out of the market too often. Transaction costs. Rule 18â Be just as willing to sell short as you are to buy. Let your object be to keep with the trend and make money. Trendfollowing 101. As Covel said earlier fund managers are Long/Short and not BUY side only. Rule 19â Never buy just because the price of a stock is low or sell short just because the price is high. hmm, Trendfollowing 101 once again. Go with Trend picking tops and bottoms is for suckers. Rule 20â Be careful about pyramiding at the wrong time. Wait until the stock is very active and has crossed Resistance Levels before buying more and until it has broken out of the zone of distribution before selling more. Good rule. Rule 21â Select the stocks with small volume of shares outstanding to pyramid on the buying side and the ones with the larger volume of stock outstanding to sell short. I guess it means dont sell short small caps , as they can ubruptly move and leave you stuck with a position. They are illiquid. Good Rule. Rule 22â Never hedge. If you are long of one stock and it starts to go down, do not sell another stock short to hedge it. Get out of the market; take your loss and wait for another opportunity. Ughh, many pairs traders who are successfull. Rule 24â Avoid increasing your trading after a long period of success or a period of profitable trades. Too Vague.His own rule of up to 10%/trade takes care of that. To conclude it looks like Gann was a trendfollower.
Somebody needs to open a thread to guess the new alias that Surf will show up next using. I vote on Wack-a-Mole. He raises his head . . . you get the idea. Someone else came up with that but I like it.