Trend Following depends on Prediction

Discussion in 'Trading' started by AFJ Garner, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. ammo

    ammo

    before laptop trading, the pit traders just traded the market,no chaRTS OR FEW AND THE CROWD MENTALITY,ORDER FLOW,MOST had trouble making the switch but some can still just trade long or short and recognize inately,follow the market
     
    #81     Jul 6, 2013
  2. So why would a pit trader take a long position if he wasn't reasonably sure the market would go up?

    "Following the market" is still predicting. The point at which you decide to follow the market is a prediction of future direction.
     
    #82     Jul 6, 2013
  3. slumdog

    slumdog


    A true trend following trader does not care which way it will go after they get in.

    They follow the flow of the market.

    If going with the flow yields a profit then so be it, if it yields a loss then so be it.

    It just so happens that going with the flow is net profitable in the long run (if done properly!)

    Going with the flow does not require prediction.

    What it does require is being able to maintain a high level of consciousness (being able to rise above fear, greed, impatience, anger with losses etc).
    Most people can not do that!
     
    #83     Jul 6, 2013
  4. slumdog

    slumdog

    Buying a breakout or whatever criteria is used, is not a prediction.

    It only tells you what the market is doing now.

    It doesn't and cant predict the future.

    Humans need a heuristic for decision making.

    "The market is breaking out now, im going with it. "

    Thats all you are doing.

    No one can predict the future state of the market, therefore when trend followers make or lose money, it isn't by prediction.

    It came from going with the flow of the market, following the trend, in the now.
     
    #84     Jul 6, 2013
  5. contra

    contra

    semantics?

    if you are anticipating it will continue (following the market/trend) is that a prediction?

    this is another one that has been debated to no end.

    I say yes, same shit.
     
    #85     Jul 6, 2013
  6. slumdog

    slumdog

    No you go are going with the flow, you dont anticipate which way it goes after you get in.

    No one can do that, no one can predict the future of something so complex as the market.
     
    #86     Jul 6, 2013
  7. contra

    contra


    lol whatever makes you sleep better at night.

    You are putting your money on the line of an uncertain outcome.

    That's a bet that you anticipate is correct.

    I take off on a wave, I anticipate is will continue and I'll be able to ride it, but it could just close out.
     
    #87     Jul 6, 2013
  8. If you don't anticipate which way it goes, then your position would be flat. The only reason to take on market risk is to seek profit. If you think the market is wholly unpredictable then there is no reason to take on a position as your expected profit is zero minus transactions costs.

    It is quite possible to make predictions about complex things. The weather is complex but I predict it will not be 200C tomorrow.
     
    #88     Jul 6, 2013
  9. But each trade is made in the expectation that this type of trade will be profitable if made enough times over the long run. That is a prediction about the future behaviour of the market.
     
    #89     Jul 6, 2013
  10. So you are claiming that, in future, the market will trend enough to make trend following profitable. That is a statement about how the future will be I.e. it is a prediction. You just contradicted your whole argument.
     
    #90     Jul 6, 2013