Zimmerman ruined Zimmerman's life. He followed Martin. That scared/enraged Martin. Martin ran and hid. When Zimmerman walked past him, presumably towards his truck, Martin ambushed him and began beating him to the extent of being attempted murder. Zimmerman pulled his weapon and killed Martin. The killing may be lawful but the entire event occurred because Zimmerman followed Martin. If Zimmerman had done what a neigborhood watch guy is supposed to do and just observe and inform the police then this would not have happened. Zimmerman will probably not be charged but he has killed a 17 year old, enraged african-americans across the country, done political damage to the President he voted for and ruined his own life. As I said in another thread, Zimmerman will have to live in hiding or go into exile abroad, he won't likely have a family of his own, he won't have a career or probably even a job, he will be shunned by his family and all of his friends. In a sense his life is over too. All because he followed Martin when the 911 operator told him not to. Oh and he *did* break the law. I heard today on the news that it is illegal for Neighborhood Watch volunteers to carry a weapon so he is going to have some kind of legal action, maybe a weapons charge on the criminal side and he becomes liable for the killing on the civil side. It'll be like OJ with a huge civil judgement that he cannot pay etc.
Jesus fucking Christ, look at Lawrence ODonnell trying to take down Zimmermans black friend who supports Zimmerman..... this is one of the most fucking disgusting/shameless interviews i have ever seen..... These liberals are really fucked in the head. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1IKKqnF0WlE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8y63e8l8UQk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I was actually in this exact scenario outside of a McDonalds when i was coming back from hockey when i was younger, and we ended up getting in a fight with a guy who was 10 years our senior because he was beating up his girlfriend while she was outside of McDonalds. We called the cops, then kicked the guys ass because we intervened, told him to stop and he started swinging. It took the cops a while to get there, so we held him down till they did. The cops never charged us for it. In my opinion there is a difference when you see violence going down towards someone you have an obligation to respond. Because someone could be hurt. Property is property, there is no point in risking your life or someone elses life over propetrty, it would have been much different if Trayvon was beating the shit out of someone when zimmerman decided to get out of his car and pursue the guy. I lived in Toronto for a large part of my life, so i also live in big cities, i understand what you are saying, but i dont think that property is worth the risk Zimmerman took, and thats precisely why the cops told him not to pursue. I think when you see violence you have an obligation to pursue, but when its just some lowlife stealing rims or a stereo there is no point in risking your life.
Yeah but I think the problem is we have the benefit of hindsight here. Most of us would think if we followed someone down the street that nothing bad would ever happen. Why would I ever allow for the possibility that someone would end up dead in that situation. I follow guys all the time. I just don't think anything of it. Of course once we know how the trade turns out we all become experts at predicting the past. Honestly, I wouldn't have thought twice about following the guy. Look, he doesn't live in the hood OK. I wouldn't be following blacks in Englewood, IL, one off the worst hoods here in Chicago. But I have followed guys around in Lincoln Park, a largely white yuppy neighborhood that is 95% white. I just would not assume someone would pull out a gun in Lincoln Park although it does happen. This guy was in a relatively nice area. Why would I assume this black kid was in a gang? Why would I assume there would be trouble? He's a tall skinny young black kid walking by himself. I would definitely start a conversation with him. I wouldn't be calling him names. But I might go up to him and say, "what's up?" Why not? I do this stuff all the time. Maybe I shouldn't. But again, we are all monday morning quarterbacking this thing which I don't think is fair.
I'd argue that more people see him as black due to whom he chose to marry. If he had married a blonde hair blue eyed women (think Tiger Woods), less people would identify him as black. If he decided to talk golf (which he plays alot of) instead of basketball, once again, more people would be less inclined to call him black.
When i was playing hockey growing up, i played in a lot of small towns, where there was nothing to do but fight, the difference was that in Canada you can rely on the fact that the other guy doesnt have a gun, so the worst case scenario you were going to take an ass whipping. I will never forget when i first moved to the states, and some guy pissed me off in the club, and i was talking to a buddy about fighting him, and he sat me down and had a talk with me about how it is not the same as Canada, and that you just dont do that shit down here, because there is a huge chance that someone has a gun. While you are confident that people in certain areas of the states dont have guns, I could be be 100% confident that NO ONE in Canada had a gun. So its tough as an immigrant to decipher the difference, because even in the best areas of the states there is an exponentially higher chance that someone has a gun than the ghettos of Canada. I would not pursue someone in the states unless violence was going down, precisely for that reason. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Yeah, honestly, I think environment is a huge factor. Like I said, if you live in a yuppie hood here in the states, you just don't think about this stuff. I have never in my entire life ever assumed someone would have a gun if I'm in a nice area. If I'm in a strange neighborhood or an area that I know is kind of iffy, then I would agree with you. Just keep moving. I just think if this event never happened, you wouldn't have this as a reference point. Now going forward naturally I'm going to think about this event as well and it will impact my decision making. But what if Zimmerman, who like me, has never run into a gun in his entire life or a violent situation. Obviously we know he did have an altercation 7 years ago with the cops. But if he was none the wiser, why would he ever be afraid? Hell, I use to always carry my cell phone out in my hand on the subways here when someone told me never do that. Someone will watch it and then when the doors open they will run by me and take and it and escape out the door. Honestly, that never occurred to me in all the years I have lived here but now I never carry my cell phone in my hand on a train.