Transaction Tax Bill has now been introduced

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Bullet, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. tradersboredom

    tradersboredom Guest

    this could be the last days of futures trading if this passes because the value of futures for even on contract is high. commissions would be like $150 per contract
    or $300 round trip.


     
    #151     Feb 18, 2009
  2. you're clearly an angry failed trader, nothing more.

     
    #152     Feb 18, 2009
  3. tradersboredom

    tradersboredom Guest

    IB is futures and options.

    IB is gone too since it's the value of futures.


    forex only remaining trading platform for daytraders.




     
    #153     Feb 18, 2009
  4. tradersboredom

    tradersboredom Guest

    bascially all speculator volume is wiped out

    only real hedgers like companies or farmers will be hedging or transacting on futures with their brokers like the old days of futures. volume was so small only 2 hour s of floor trading

     
    #154     Feb 18, 2009
  5. Mario66

    Mario66

    A $100,000 transaction can be made easily each trade when scalping GS AAPL etc.
     
    #155     Feb 18, 2009
  6. Raskolnikov , I don't day trade .I buy and hold ,it came down to this , you can not hold a stock overnight anymore , it's not
    supposed to be this way , so FCK you too my friend.
     
    #156     Feb 18, 2009
  7. bears21

    bears21

     
    #157     Feb 18, 2009
  8. aqtrader

    aqtrader

    Title: A Technical Analysis of Impact of Proposed Transaction Tax
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Summary
    =======

    Want to know some detailed and interesting numbers. Please read on.
    In short, the market will shrink 83.5% to a level of 16.5% of total
    average trading volume. The proposed transaction tax total were to be
    27.04 billion (minus losing capital gain, and others) instead of
    naively expected 160 billion per year after considering the shrinking
    volume. Consider losing capital gain and losing businesses, the
    actual total tax increase from the market were close to zero or
    negative. (UK actually already proved this result by seeing its total
    tax amount plat (plus problems) after introduced the transaction
    tax. ) If this tax were to pass, for short term traders, they were
    out. Even the so so investors were to be hit hard as well. This is
    what the "negligible" transaction tax will bring us. Please read more
    if you want to know some detail numbers and why this can be concluded
    from a different point of view as compared to many of you see the same
    results from various angles.

    Market data
    ===========
    Total stocks considered: all major stocks at NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX
    5033 syms (simply because I have market data for all these stocks).

    6 N/A
    21 Conglomerates
    111 Utilities
    289 Industrial
    394 Consumer
    459 Basic
    503 Healthcare
    848 Services
    898 Technology
    1504 Financial

    Key numbers and Analysis
    ========================

    This analysis is based on market data as of the market close on Feb
    18, 2009.

    Total current market cap (considering the 5033 stocks only):
    12513408098648.40 = 12.51 trillion

    Total 20-day-average trading amount per day ( total sum of average
    trading volume multiplied by closing price): 130071335268.84 =
    130.07 billion per day

    Total trading days for 2009: 252

    20-day-average transaction tax per day if it were passed:
    650356676.34 = 650.34 million per day

    Transaction tax for 2009 assuming the market does not shrink:
    163889882438.73 = 163.88 billion per year

    Ttransaction tax for 2009 considering the factor of expected market
    shrinking: 27.04 billion per year.

    DOW index from Jan 4, 1960 to Feb 18, 2009 from 679.06 to 7555.63, up
    1012.66%, equivalent to accumulative growth of 5.0399% per year.

    The average total market share turnover rate is 261.94%, that means,
    all the shares (this number will be much higher if considering only
    the outstanding shares).

    The current average trading cost (assume just 0.05%, that is, you pay only $5
    dollars to sell or sell 1000 shares of a stock at price of $10.0 per
    share). So, a round-trade, the cost is around 0.1% already.

    Market turnover rate: 2.69, that is, 269% per year, that is the
    market hold shares for average of around 4.5 months. (this number
    will be much bigger if considering only outstanding shares).

    A normal average market investor/trader assuming he does just the
    average turnover rate of 2.69 times per year. His average market
    performance would be 5.0399% - 0.1% * 2.69 = 4.77% per year (before
    capital gain tax) since 1960. This is the number without the proposed
    transaction tax.

    If the transaction tax were added, assuming the market ignores this
    so called "negligible" tax. The market (investors, not short term
    day-traders) should accept the average yearly return of 5.0399% -
    (0.1% + 0.5%) * 2.69 = 3.42%. The market is smart. It will adjust
    itself to an acceptable level to make a yearly return of closing to
    5%. Assuming 4.5 is an acceptable level. Then, the market has to
    decrease its turnover rate (that is liquidity) to a level which will
    make investors (not day traders or speculators) happy (probably not)
    at 4.5% yearly return. Calculating this new equation, we get the
    turnover rate should be at 89.9% per year. That means the average
    investor needs to hold his stocks for over one year and one month as
    compared to the current 4.5 months for an average yearly return of
    4.77%. This is equivalent to the average market total trading volume
    be shrunk to 33% of the current level. If all short term traders are
    gone, this number will be much much smaller. If the market does not
    accept 4.5% return, the turnover rate should be even lower. I would
    put the trading volume be shrunk, by 100% - 33%/2 = 83.5%,
    reasonably, to 33%/2 = 16.5%. So, the proposed transaction tax were
    be shrunk to 27.04 billion.
    Impact on short-term traders
    ============================

    Please read more why all short-term traders should leave the market.

    It will be funny to see how big the impact would be for an average
    short term trader. Here I am using the turnover rate of 252, that is,
    using all his account buying power every day, no overnight
    holdings. His cost per year was 252 * 0.1% = 25.2% without transaction
    tax. Many short term traders can survive with this number. 25.2% of
    commissions per year is just fine for a good trader while most day
    traders see this a big burden already. For a very exceptional trader,
    if his performance is more than 252 * 0.6% = 151.2% per year. He may
    still survive. Remember this does not assume any leverage. If this
    same trader uses 1:4 leverage, his performance should be yearly
    604.8% to keep positive. 1:4 leverage is a quite small number. I
    believe many traders are using a much bigger leverage. As far as I
    know, I do see any of elite-traders can reach such enormous
    performance, even neke (the guy who turned his account from around
    140K to almost half million in year 2008, would be a loser and were
    to owe a sizable transaction tax at the year end.) So, a day trader,
    if he is not stupid and is not yet proved to be very very
    exceptional, should not be surprised to loss money year after year
    once this tax were added into law. No solution to get around. It is
    wise to simply stop trading US markets.

    How about swing traders? I can calculate more numbers for this group,
    but their situation will be very much similar to day traders. The
    more they trade, the more they pay, the more they lose.

    Impact on long-term investors
    =============================

    The strategy of buy and hold proves not always working, so average
    investors should not be in the market. But this group of traders,
    they are still traders anyway, they have to follow this strategy
    blindly. If they do trades, they have to trade between themselves
    without the help of short-term traders to provide liquidity they need
    desperately when they see something to happen in the horizon. So, we
    will see only the real investors who buy and hold, for a period of at
    least one year, so as to only charge a negligible 0.5% for a round
    trade, (better hold for ever to totally avoid this tax) to earn
    dividend. What a market it would be! I will see a market consisting
    of only real investors and, of course, real gamblers who does not
    care about transaction tax. This is a market low liquidity and high
    volatile. If the sole purpose of this transaction tax bill is this
    plus a huge unexpected blow to damage the current and the future US
    economy. Then the goal is done. The market is done. Congratulation
    for people who support this bill.
    PS. I just talked with a MBTrading guy. He looks never heard of this tax
    yet. After I explained to him. I believe he started worrying,
    probably for the future of his firm, his job, etc. Here is his
    response: "It is terrible idea I think, and you're right most brokers
    will probably shut their business. The whole world trades the US
    market for it's liquidity. People will look to other markets outside
    US if it were to pass ...".

    I am a technical person. I would be very much interested to do more
    analysis, for free, if you get an idea to evaluate the impact of this tax by
    actual numbers.

    Thanks,

    aqtrader
     
    #158     Feb 18, 2009
  9. I am wondering how many times Defazio has sponsored a transaction tax bill in the past? His previous attempt (HR 7125) never made it out of committee so he had to reintroduce the bill for the new session of congress. I'm sure he's brought forth these bills in the past and they have crashed and burned.

    -Guru
     
    #159     Feb 18, 2009