Tradovate with Jigsaw Trading vs. X_Trader - reliability

Discussion in 'Trading Software' started by lukas, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. lukas


    A question for those using Tradovate platform with Jigsaw Trading tools enabled within the platform (not the standalone Jigsaw Daytradr) in a LIVE ENVIRONMENT:

    How reliable is this platform in terms of stability and responsiveness? I know the CQG data feed it uses is one of the best but I am more interested how the platform itself performs, especially with larger size orders, like 100 contracts or more.

    I am undecided whether this platform might be a good choice in comparison to X_Trader. It would offer significant savings on commission rate and fixed costs, but surely there must be a reason why no prop firms, institutions or other serious players do not use Jigsaw Trading.

    In other words, I would not feel I am getting the best possible software unless I use X_Trader. Would you see a trading company using Tradovate with Jigsaw as a professional solution?
  2. MrMuppet


    If you are scalping, you don't want TT/X_Trader for the frontend, but for the network/access hubs and the fact that dedicated stuff works 24/7 to keep the thing going.

    For futures trading I've always used X_Trader and my downtime is litterally zero. I also thought about Jigsaw for a while and tested it, but I would not trust a spaghetti coded one man show.

    Look at TT's Website: Tons of documentation and resources, patch notes, moderated support forum. At jigsaw's site, the first thing I see are four awards ("true Edge" and after you click away the pop up for "free training video's" you see a couple of testimonials and other marketing crap.

    So I'm not discriminating but while I had no incidents when I tested jigsaw, I just would not trust it when the shit hits the fan
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  3. lukas


    I see you have the way of thinking similar to mine. The fact that Jigsaw (and Tradovate) are "one-man" shows (when I phoned Tradovate, CEO of the firm answered the phone) and also that TT has such a great support round the clock plus its rock-solid stability justifies paying so much more for it. I wish there was a broker with an offer like Tradovate but with X_Trader as a front-end. On the other hand, TT's new platform is a step in wrong direction for them as it is nowhere as good as X_Trader.
  4. lukas


    BTW, is there any tool that measures things like latency when placing orders objectively?

    I would rather use something like that rather than rely on my visual assessment of how the platform performs.
  5. MrMuppet


    I just need a DOM and that's it. Cannot speak for it's other features such as autospreader or ADL, but I find that new TT desktop is pretty much on par with old X_trader.

    There are a couple of alternatives around when it comes to cost structure so I wouldn't write them of completely. CTS T4 is the other option, although not as good as TT.

    For latency tests I'd say you have to look at your infrastructure, pick out the right IP adress and trace it. Here's the network access manual for EUREX:

    Be aware of the fact that most retail solutions are rather trash when it comes to connection. Let's say you want to trade EUREX/CME from the Netherlands and go with a spaghetti frontend powered by Zen/DNT I.Q or Rithmic Ninja Trader and it's universe of add ons.

    So while your datafeed might be ok, the orders you send to EUREX are going to the US first because your front end provider doesn't have a Hub in the EU. So from Netherlands to US to Frankfurt and the same way back for a confirmation, so you see if you're filled or not.
    Make sure you check the infrastructure when you go shopping :)

    I'd say if you are trading intraday short term/scalp, you want TT, CQG, Stellar or Neon from Marex. Stay away from retail crap, it's going to cost you more in the end
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  6. lukas


    I will be connected via VPS to my clearing firm's network. Now I need to figure out whether to invest in a leased, symmetrical line or just do it over standard fibre internet. That's another fixed cost - would you say it is necessary, or does retail internet solution suffice?

    I like your "spaghetti frontend" phrase - you are right. I cannot imagine any serious guy putting like 50k volume monthly through this retail crap like Jigsaw
  7. MrMuppet


    For me, fibre connection is enough. I post orders and rely on Qposition more than on speed, but I trade a thick market. When you are mostly a taker and trade fast markets, you might want to shave off every delay possible. Speed game is lost for me, so I'm not a taker anymore.

    Thing is, there is a real difference between 30ms and 200ms but (at least for me) there isn't much difference between 10ms and 30ms.

    Multiply everything by three (200ms till your screen shows the data, click to send order, receive confirmation that order is in the system). The slow network gives you 600 ms delay, the fast one gives you 90ms delay and the leased line 30ms.

    Slow= retail, fast = professional tools, fastest = professional internet. Since human brain has 260ms to react, additional 60ms dont hurt me as much regarding passive execution, but 600ms would kill me.

    The biggest thing in terms of latency is the amount of hops and where your order goes. No need to pay a leased line to your firm when the Hub is on the Bahamas :)
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  8. lukas


    I have done some enquiries and got some quotes - I will probably be going with something called "Ethernet in the First Mile" which ranks in the middle between a retail solution and a proper fibre leased line. There will still be copper between the street cabinet and my site but I get a guaranteed download/upload, stable latency and the same parameters all the time.

    BTW, Tradovate can facilitate CQG platforms but there is a $0.30 per contract fee, which has no cap.

    Jigsaw has just released their "institutional" Daytradr. Funny they do not give names of the institutions using it.
    MrMuppet likes this.
  9. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    To be fair, after 6 years in business, the shit has not yet hit the fan!

    We are a small firm and growing but we aren't a one man band, you just don't hear from the other people in the company because they are mostly nerds and we keep them out of the sunlight.
    CALLumbus likes this.
  10. JigsawTrading

    JigsawTrading Sponsor

    Well - prepare to be a little surprised...

    There is indeed some spaghetti involved in interfacing with 3rd party apps & that's why we are moving away from that model.

    We had a number of prop firms help with the beta release testing and seen some younger prop traders go live.

    For the older guys, they are set on the platform they grew up on, but I think you'll find that newer traders are more open to younger platforms like ours.

    At the end of the day - people choose to work with one company/platform for all sort of different reasons. It could come down to something as simple as the way you handled their inquiry.

    It's a big market and we look set to do ok.
    #10     Aug 31, 2017
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