Trading with a Stop Loss in the Futures Market is for Losers

Discussion in 'Risk Management' started by emg, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. JSHINV

    JSHINV

    I’ll stick with the subject and not discuss experience, trading ability and strategy. A couple of others hit that nail very well.

    Stop placement can be a cause but I don’t think it is the primary cause of losers in the futures market. Leverage relative to account size is the bush you are beating around. For example, try trading first 100 shares of SPY using $12,700 of cash, instead of trading one ES contract of $63,700, thinking you are only trading the $5000 (the margin requirement).
     
    #31     Jun 20, 2011
  2. Visaria

    Visaria

    Not only has the "house", as emg puts it, but also raw experience has trained me to use risk management, of which stops are one possibility.

    However, there are a number of forms of risk management. For instance, if you have a diversified portfolio, say you have a 100 different stocks, that in itself gives you some risk management where you (probably) don't need to use stop losses.

    Or if you are an insider, you know all about your company, you may be quite happy not to use stops.

    But for the guy who is trading actively, perhaps using leverage, stops are the most practical tool for him. At the very least, you must have a point in your mind where you will exit, no matter what, if the market goes there.

    I recall buying one of the stock index futures literally at the all time high in 2000. I had a stop and was out for 20 pips (or something). It's never gone there since!!! I was also long during the day of the 9/11 attacks. I was out because of my stop loss order just before the big fall.
     
    #32     Jun 21, 2011
  3. emg

    emg

    In the house, the sr executives will decide and have a list of high risk traders and low risk traders. They will decide who need stop and who doesn't.

    U must be in their black list.
     
    #33     Jun 21, 2011
  4. plyka

    plyka

    I personally don't use actual stops, but do have mental stops. I would never average down, that's very simple.

    Regarding your overall post, any post like yours is written by an amatuer. Only a losing beginner can believe that there is any certainty in the market or that there is only 1 way to do things. There are many ways to skin a cat, it's not about only 1 way. And any trader who has any success understands this. I'm sure there are ways to even win while averaging a loss, like you suggested, but i would never do in a million years. I'm 100% sure that there are ways to win using stops, even though I don't use them.

    These are the trivialities in trading and have ZERO to do with winning and losing. Winning and losing are about other things, more fundamental things. The Green Bay Packers didn't win the superbowl because they like the color green, they won it because they have the best QB in the league who played at an uber elite level. You're talking about the color green, things of little importance.
     
    #34     Jun 21, 2011
  5. emg

    emg


    There are ways. 10% winners of the 90% losers.

    Only 10% will survive in this game.
     
    #35     Jun 21, 2011
  6. Eight

    Eight

    Thanks for not quoting Hershey... I'm assuming it was one of those mind numbing, brain-stopping posts... he does have a few good points to make as do many, but reading that stuff could make me assume the fetal position..
     
    #36     Jun 21, 2011
  7. Bull. You didn't test enough then. Stops don't cause you to lose. Poor entries cause you to lose. If you can't figure out a good place to put a stop then you probably don't know where to enter either. My guess is you probably aren't the most efficient trader if that's the case

    What makes you the master on stops lol? They don't have "stop" placement in quant school huh?

    There has been a couple excellent threads on here that explain stop placement.
     
    #37     Jun 23, 2011
  8. moarla

    moarla

    only an idiot let going the maket against him 20 points lol
     
    #38     Jun 23, 2011
  9. Stoploss is for the newbies. Pros dont use stops. Your system either works or it dont. if it dont, get out. U dont need stops to tell you when to get out.

    if u need stops at all even a disaster stop, you overleveraged.
     
    #39     Jun 23, 2011
    Axon likes this.
  10. moarla

    moarla

    i have 2 days/year where i loose internet connection for the entire day, so on that days i like my stops :)
     
    #40     Jun 23, 2011