Now you resort to quoting me out of context, Very nice. So what we have here is a Ornish study which changed ALL KINDS of things for the patients, including diet, and you sit there and PRETEND that you KNOW for a fact that the LOW FAT DIET was the key here, and not all the other factors. EVEN THOUGH, I have shown an example of an extremely HIGH FAT diet with a low incidence of heart disease. Well well... seems the facts are contrary to your unsupported OPINION. peace axeman
Oh My God ... I give you objective quantitative proof in peer reviewed published research and you give me an Eskimo story? You beat me! I give up! Your proof is too compelling!! LMAO!!! ps I have sent an email off to Dean Ornish, MD and Dr Fleming of the Fleming Heart Institute with your evidence. They need this info right away! Hope you don't mind.
Apparently LS doesn't have the slightest idea of the difference between controlled and uncontrolled variables. He also seems to be an adherent to the principle that "if it's in print, it must be true".
1) You have not provided a SINGLE *DIET* study on the Ornish diet. 2) You claim the "low fat diet" part of the lifestyle change study was the key to it's success, but have failed to support this claim. 3) Eskimo heart disease rates on high fat diets are well known. They directly contradict your OPINION that its the "low fat" part of the lifestyle change study that is having an effect. apparently, you are incapable of doing a simple net search to verify this. 4) You posted the "The Fleming Heart and Health Institute" as objective quantitative proof, but it wasn't even a study about the Ornish diet. 5) The fleming study explicitly states: Despite increasing numbers of individuals following high-protein diets, little or no information is currently available regarding the effect of these diets on coronary artery disease and coronary blood flow. 6) You quoted something someone ELSE said and incorrectly pinned it on me. 7) You were unaware that Dr Ornish AGREED with some aspects of the low carb diets, and claimed otherwise 8) You incorrectly claimed that Dr Ornish's research is the ONLY definitive proof out there at this. Your position is extremely weak. You haven't provided ANYTHING to date that backs up your claim that the Ornish diet is *THE* diet, and in fact I have provided COUNTER evidence against this claim with your so called "eskimo stories". Calling them "eskimo stories" may make you feel better about your delusion of reality, but the fact is, there are cultures on very high FAT diets with very low rates of heart disease. Scientists link this to the Omega-3 fatty acids, but it clearly shows that you can have a healthy heart on a high fat diet. 2 of the original reports: *Bang, HO et al, Plasma lipids and lipoproteins in Greenlandic West Coast Eskimos, Acad Med Scand, 192:85-94, 1972. *Bang, HO et al, The composition of food consumed by Greenland Eskimos, Acad Med Scand, 200:69, 1976. Some interesting reading, links.... http://www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/fats_for_heart.php http://www.gnldandmore.com/main/sbgnld/research/target/heart/index.php The Eskimo paradox is well known and I think almost everyone has heard of the French Paradox as well. High fat, cooking with lard, and lower incidence of heart attacks than americans. All contrary to your "low fat diet". peace axeman
Oh... you mean like the DEAN ORNISH DIET that Stanford University labeled as FAD diet along with the Atkins and ZONE diets in their latest study? Geezusss... what a hypocrite. peace axeman
Personally... I'm going to wait for the results of the Stanford study. I would wager that ALL the diets have SOME beneficial effect. But it will be interesting to see if any one of them stands out from the rest. Unlike longshot, who is completely closeminded and has already drawn a conclusion, i'll let the data do the talking. peace axeman
LOL The Fleming studies use the Ornish protocol you idiot. I'm not going to respond to the rest of this nonsense of yours, it doesn't deserve a reply. Your points of contention are laughable. Again, I have forwarded your Eskimo "paradox" to Dean Ornish. I am sure he'll want to know immediately that those improved heart PET scans are simply a grand illusion.
Can put a man on the moon but not work out what the healthiest diet is? Is the task too difficult or are there too many vested interests? How complicated can it really be? There is an awful lot of misinformation and emotion involved in this. Food is the biggest business on the planet and what you eat has a massive impact on what you are. It's an ingrained minefield and there is not much clarity about. The problem as I see it is timidity. Sure, you can get a little healthier by eating a little better. But why not go all the way and eat as healthily as possible? So, what is the ultimate diet? You can say there is no answer to this, but that's just a cop out. It's some question if you really start to think about it. And so are the connotations. This question really does deserve some serious thought. Anyone, like to hazard a sensible guess?