I played poker systematically to learn how it would help with my trading. I only played small stakes but learned a lot. However, my talent is in the market and so you know are you going to work on your game or another game. Specifically, I learned the following: * Great odds often lead to large losses. One problem in trading is that you can't ever know if you were doing something "right" and the other trader got lucky or if you were flat wrong. The uncertainty makes it impossible for most to become successful discretionary traders. Let's say you have a loss, you can analyze or over analyze it or decide it was a fluke. At end of day, nobody knows and nobody can say. At least in internet poker, you can review the hand history and see if you lost with the best or worst hand. You can determine MATHEMATICALLY what your odds of winning were -- no if ands or buts. When you lose several times with a 70% or 80% favorite in a row -- try 5 or 6 times then you will get a better appreciation for losing with great odds. * It takes a lot of trials to get an idea for the edge you have. A stock trader will present 3-4 cases as statistically significant. It is not uncommon to need 10,000 or more hands in poker to get a true representation of the equity curve. In general, poker will teach you to discount a few cases or treat them with more suspicion * Focus on strengths. I learned to focus on my strengths. I found the games I could win. This is the first rule of gambling. As for patience, I found I did best in turbo games which didn't require as much patience. In general, you need to approach it with training mind for the stock market like I did. I no longer play nor have any interest in poker. I was able to get consistently profitable in the lower stakes with a few dollars bankroll. I was really dominant player but the rake took most of my profits at that level. One thing I learned that I still use was that just being a dominant player doesn't lead to a steady rising bankroll. Focusing on the bankroll is more important. One other thing that I learned is when switching from simulation to real money the primary reason for loss is a desire to avoid losses. For example, I was a strong sit-n-go player when I got like $10 to play at poker stars. I won my first sit-n-go tournament. I thought WOW my play money experience did translate to real money play- - which it it did*. However, I then became concerned and felt I could make my money last longer at cash games. That was a big mistake because I didn't play cash games. Eventually, I learned to play cash games and prefer 4 player or 6 player turbos. So, you see the same thing in trading.. maybe you don't place a stop in the simulator then go live and start using tiny stops -- you'll get killed. The details are very important. You have to keep the simulation exactly the same as the real money environment. It is actually easier to transition to trading from sim to real money then in poker though because in trading some fool will always call your bet. I don't know how useful poker was. I did learn a lot but it wasn't from focusing on the game but as a result of examining myself and my goals. I was again a rather dominant no limit player. But, I couldn't read the board. I could read what it said my hand had and read the other players. Anytime I tried to play a book strategy and multi-table then I lost. But, I was strong heads up and in 4 or 6 player turbos. I never felt comfortable playing full tables -- maybe it was just my personality. One of my favorite money makers was to find 1 person alone at a table. They might be sitting a 9 table and probably had multiple tables open. I'd start a heads up and bust them and take their money because they didn't have heads up play. Plus, I new they'd be distracted. But, it required discipline on my part.. find the lone player. bust him. and move on. If I stayed then I would be in a 9 player game where I didn't do well. The problem is that a lot of these players only had $1 or a couple dollar so I after busting them then I didn't make much. On other words, the poor players didn't carry much. SO, I made a lot more in turbos. But, you see the thing wasn't that I was just saying I'm great at the game or even know the game. I found a small edge.. Found my strength and exploited it. But, in general I do not think poker is a good game or gambling either. Look at POker Stars they had billions so it is obvious where all the money was going. Oh, one other thing I learned was to listen to my inner voice. After grinding all day then I got to point where I didn't want to play and in that state, I would always find a way to lose to make myself quit playing. So, I started paying real close attention to the voice in my head that said enough or quit. This is a good lesson. One more key concept from poker is what I call the perception gap. That is that 2 poker players will see the same board and form a vastly different view of the odds. In the market, this is the basis for trade -- the perception gap. I mean that is how trade can occur.. so it is a very interesting concept and something I try to use to help me. So there are some good issues.. you may find that you can't deal with uncertainty of market. I expect a lot of poker players couldn't deal with uncertainty of the market. But, I guess it depends on what type of player you are. i was 100% intuitive.. never knew any strategy.
This is the biggest similarity... You learn > 90% by studying your losses. Other than that... If you were playing online poker... Against 70% Bots run by people with $$$$ budgets... And designed by guys with PhDs making $250,000/year... (Instead of 50% drunken 17 yo idiots surfing porn between hands)... Maybe you could draw some meaningful comparisons. In reality, the 2 Zero Sum Games are VERY different... One requires a gambling mindset... The other requires an arbitrage mindset... Most Elite Quants are hard-wired for one or the other. And if you are not an Elite Quant... forget about either.
I have seen many posts that talk about patience being a key factor in poker. I dont think you can make much money in poker playing against good players in todays game being patient and this is why. Most players have HUDs running that display everyones stats at the table so if you are playing a super tight patient game you will be seen a mile away and will not get much action at the table when you decide to enter a hand. A few years ago this style worked but not so much anymore. You will just be way to easy to play against as your hand range will be so small. I think one should build a hand range by position and follow your plan until your opponents make you adjust. As you gain more experience you can widen your hand range which will make you tougher to read and play against. Also you will get more action when you have a real hand. I think it is building and learning your game and range to a point where you know what you are going to do in each situation before it happens which is extremly hard to do. I worked on this for 3 years part time, posting hand histories, watching videos and never even got my game close to where I was happy with it. Discipline would be the word I would use but not patience. Knowing what you are going to do with your range and following through with it. BTW I am talking about playing deep cash games and not just poker in general but the same could be said for many other games.
What can 0.5% do? I thought it's very hard to construct any meaningful trade with only 0.5% tolerance... Then these discretionary traders will tend to become fast-in fast-out type of day-traders?
There are no good Poker players,only the lucky ones.Some unaware rookie can beat your pros,hands down...
I think this makes sense. Other traders would like comment on this and comment about in general how you develop an edge?
I think that playing online poker actually made my trading performance worse. Reason being, online poker isn't 100% legit, and poker is a lot more luck, trading takes skill.
This post is so 2008. A small stack strategy does not have a positive expectation against an "all pro roster table". Generally, a pro poker player will understand that a player with a small stack, lowers the effective stack. This means that if a player with $100 bets into a pro with $1,000, the pro will understand that he has to play the hand as if they both have only $100 because he know he can both only lose/win $100. So if you are playing an optimum strategy with a small stack, a pro can also play the same optimum strategy with a larger stack because you effectively have the same amount of money.
its not playing poker that helps.. its the lessons u learn to become successful at it that is what helps you. become highly successful in any difficult field, start trading, apply the methods you used to become successful previously to your trading and you will do well.
If you think poker is gambling for all players, you don't understand poker at all. Either one can be a skilled game or gambling depending upon who is making the bets.