I did a search and was surprised to see no one has made a thread similar to this this yet... so let's try it. I'd like to see just a list of how much real money you spent/blew/used/learned with before you started to make consistent returns. I think it's appropriate to include a time frame as well, for obvious reasons. Users who are not consistently profitable can post too of course. For me: -Started trading in 2009 -Tuition (as of today): approx. $25,000 -Still working on consistent returns
None and I didn't even have a computer. There weren't any personal computers. Traded treasury bonds and closed end funds using one of the financial channels which were around back then.
started: (2009 part-time, 2011 full time) tuition: around $70,000 Current State: I consider myself profitable now, but still have to work on consistency (probably can make money 9 months out of 12). Psychological State: My biggest issues - Indiscipline, inability to sit on hands and do nothing when I see no opportunity. What made me profitable from unprofitable: Backtesting - different strategies, understanding dynamics of a market viz. market average range, important support resistance points etc. Understanding interlinkages in markets and markets link with news, reducing trading size, screen-time, detailed stats on what is working and what is not working and more importantly detailed stats on my daily, weekly and monthly performance. Last but not the least, doing largest loss analysis helped me "a lot" - I could identify the trading decisions/psychological behaviors that were causing largest losses and control them.
Another Path: - Earn a PhD in Advanced Math & Science - 4-5 years - Work with one of biggest Casino in WS (GS, MS and etc) 1) Learn as much as you can on the job based on your PhD's intelligent 2) Save as much as you can from your Bonus - Quit after 3 years (or wait until they fire you as eventually your group no longer in profit due to the change in market's condition) - Trade by your own : using the bonus money and the knowledge you gain during your time with the "Casino" This approach is much better than spend all your money to snake oil vendor&software/education Lastly & Most important : Don't teach anyone else your secret recipes (aka edge)even to your wife or kids, wife can get divorce and young kids can't keep their mouth shut.
Started in 1999 Tuition a little above 100K, maybe 110K Consistently profitable now, took a long time to get 25K and apply the discipline needed to not blow up. I had a lot of fits and starts because went I from job to job to trying to earn enough to get over the PDT rule or fund my high yield options trades. Lots of trying to turn 1k to 25K quickly. In the end, it took a job I could stick with that provided income above my needs to provide stability, so I could stop taking such chances to get over 25K. If I could do it over again, I wouldn't have studied the market, I would have been a mack. Wilt
Biggest things I think that improve performance. It's always the sitting on hands that makes the most money, and I realized since there is no control of the market after you enter a position, I just set my stop and walk away. Yes, I check the quotes when I can, but I trade partially because I want the freedom of time it can provide. So, logically, reducing screen time is what I need to do.
Studying stocks: 1977, placed first trades 1980 Stocks tuition: $ 0, never have had down year in long term or intraday Studying Futures: 1984, placed first trades 1985 Futures tuition: $105,000, 7 down years Current State: No longer have to trade full time, matter of fact, down to 30-40 minutes a day in ES, 2 hours in Crude Oil. Have several trained and they trade for me which allows me time not to have to sit in front of PC's and have several coded automatic methods. Spending much more time developing longer term methods ie. weekly, monthly data, as this is where the big money always has been. Psychological State: I am now a monkey, see trade and become automatic. My biggest issues in my youth- poor poor poor backtesting, concentrated on making profits instead of money management rules, revenge trading, finding the areas where the uneducated are entering(often times it was me), discovering less trading makes more money. Not realizing when the market is acting odd, if I normally have 5 trades in 30 minutes and after 30 minutes have no trades = STOP, I use to then try to force trades. Slow to learn the big money for me was learning how to trade chop during lunch. What made me profitable in futures: Learning how to code and test. Increased backtesting to min sample size of 3000 and ten years of Backtesting - creating more spreadsheets for money management, dividing up day session into three periods. Goal: Reducing ES goal to 2-4 points and cutting back size 80-90%
$100k 2001 (random all in betting) $10k 2004 $10k 2005 $10k 2006 $10k 2007 $10k 2008 $5k 2009 $155k total harvard education in money management.
So I went over all my bank statements and wire transfers since I had time this weekend. Turns out I didn't account for about 1 deposit I made. I calculated it like this: Tuition = All outgoing wires to my broker - My current trading account value I don't trade Forex anymore (no point). (Wires to broker): $40,012.28 (Futures) +$2,786.25 (Forex) ------------------------ $42,798.53 (Total from above) - $13,585.16 (Current trading account value) ------------------------ $29,223.37 (Final) Blew every one of those accounts the same way. I think I've learned my lesson.