Trading & the Zero Sum Game Debate

Discussion in 'Trading' started by butterfacetrader, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. markgo

    markgo

    The $100 is part of Person B's account now from selling. The $5 goes to Person A's account from dividends.

    Initial wealth of everyone in the stock market: $100
    Final wealth of everyone in the stock market: $105

    So where is the zero sum?
     
    #61     Sep 6, 2015
  2. i960

    i960

    You don't understand dividends man. The stock price DROPS at dividend time based on tbe dividend payout. If you sample the worth of both A and B at the same time they're both at 100$.
     
    #62     Sep 6, 2015
  3. markgo

    markgo

    You guys are so hung up on the stock price. The stock price is irrelevant pre or post dividend time! What we can be certain from a monetary perspective is that the money supply (and net wealth) for participants in the stock market will increase via dividends even if stock transactions take place or not. Stocks can be worth pennies and the underlying companies can still pay handsome dividends. So it is impossible for the stock market to be a zero sum game because the stock holders are part owners and share gains from economic growth. This is the basis of capitalism and if you believe capitalism is a zero sum game as well, you're probably a socialist and shouldn't be playing the stock market.

    Now if stocks don't pay dividends, that's a different story.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2015
    #63     Sep 6, 2015
  4. i960

    i960

    You're completely moving around goalposts in order to try and prove a flimsy point. Fact of the matter is that AT THAT POINT neither seller A or buyer B have any more net value than the other. Your entire argument ASSUMES gains.
     
    #64     Sep 6, 2015
  5. i960

    i960

    Also why are we even discussing this topic again when there's atleast 10-20 threads already on this debate, including a 600+ post monster listed right below.
     
    #65     Sep 6, 2015
  6. markgo

    markgo

    I'm not moving the goalpost. People are arguing about zero sum at the point of transaction, but that is a fallacious argument against the stock market because DIVIDENDS WILL BE PAID REGARDLESS OF TRANSACTIONS AND WEALTH GROWS.
     
    #66     Sep 6, 2015
  7. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Are you understanding that dividends come "out" of the stock and not from the magical dividend fairy? The Dividend "is" a transaction. It comes out of the retained earnings account of the given company and it reduces the market cap by the same amount. It's moving money from your left hand to your right hand. Nobody is getting richer by getting a dividend.
     
    #67     Sep 6, 2015
    i960 and StarDust9182 like this.
  8. i960

    i960

    He's basically arguing the present moment with the future potential. I stopped trying.
     
    #68     Sep 6, 2015
  9. EPrado

    EPrado

    This magical dividend fairy has the tricked a good part of the investing public. I can't tell you how many people say this stock is paying a 1.00 dividend !!! It's great !!!! They don't realize that the stock price is adjusted down to reflect that 1.00 when it's near time to pay out the dividend. That 1.00 comes out of your stock price.
     
    #69     Sep 6, 2015
  10. With respect, you are completely incorrect. I would suggest you go research dividends and ex-dividend dates.

    After research, if you are still sure we are all wrong here, then here is a suggested strategy for you. Buy the stock on the day a dividend will be declared 2 minutes before the close (to be sure you get filled). The next day sell it on market open. Your profit (according to your math) should be 5 dollars or close to it for each 100 dollars. If the stock pays 5 dollars 4 times a year, you will make 20 dollars pretty much risk free on a 100 dollar 24 hour investment. That will beat most investors. In 5 years plow the 100 dollars into another 100 cash machine. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams in no time.

    Good luck to you.
     
    #70     Sep 6, 2015