Trading the DOM/Tape/Order flow

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by tylerbose, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. tylerbose

    tylerbose

    Many ex pro-traders are proposing seminars and webinars to teach retail traders about it, obviously not for free.

    There are also payed platforms built specifically for that type of trading, ATAS, Bookmap, Jigsaw, ....etc.

    But i can't help thinking that there is no edge in it, if the only thing you have to do is to figure out iceberg orders, volatility and monitor order flow an AI can do it, in fact an AI will do it faster and more accurately. we can't compete with them.


    I apologize if its the wrong section to post this
     
  2. CALLumbus

    CALLumbus

    The AI of today cannot do what an experienced human trader can do: to see and feel the thousands of nuances, differences and similarities that happen every day on the chart and on the DOM.

    You can try those seminars if you need some basics to start with, but most of that stuff is also available in the internet for free. Both the seminars and the free info in the internet wont give you an "edge". Best what they can give you is a starting point, a fundament for your journey as a trader.

    As with everything in life, we get out what we put in. If all you are willing to invest into your trading career are a few hours of seminar and a few hundred bucks, what do you honestly think you will receive for that ?
    No boxing champion, no champion race car driver, no top football player has ever been able to get that far by just taking a seminar on how to jab. Or a book about how to drive fast laps.

    You have to actually do it. As a race driver, you have to drive, lap after lap to get better. As a trader, sit in front of a DOM, hour after hour, day after day. And dont just watch, best is you interact with the market, even if it is only 1 lot. That will teach you how to trade. Not a 2 day seminar. Try it, do it for 1 year. And then come back and tell me if you have improved as a trader or not.
     
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  3. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    DOM trading or trading via order flow is becoming less used by retail traders today mainly due to todays algorithms and the games played on market depth.

    Very few retail traders these days are successful at it. Someone here posted a similar thread as this one in the past few years with links to free info + videos on DOM trading & order flow trading.
     
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  4. tylerbose

    tylerbose

    No offense but that sounds like some motivational crap you feed to newbies.
    i don't think i fall in that category, i'v been trading Forex for 8 years and recently been looking into Futures and the wonders of the DOM, Spoofing, iceberg orders...
    i'm not looking for a pat on the back, i'm here to have a serious discussion about orderflow.

    We all know that bots make most of the liquidity now days,and while there may have been an edge reading the orderflow years ago i don't think it is still the case now days.

    Orderflow is their playground, you are working with the same information they have to make trading decisions, they will always be faster when it come to execution.

    We're not talking about some pleb EA with a logic based off RSI and a couple moving averages..., we're talking about genetic algorithms, neural networks, they can see patterns (at least in the orderflow) more accurately then any human can, unlike us they are fast enough to take in to account every single trade in the market.

    I'm not saying that no trader can be successful, i'm just saying that i don't think it is possible using the orderflow.

    if anyone disagree, please explain why i'm wrong.

    Thank you.
     
  5. CALLumbus

    CALLumbus


    I tell the truth from my perspective and experience. And gave you a pretty honest view on how things work in life in general, not just in trading.

    It sounds a bit like you think somebody out there has the secret recipe, the holy grail, a simple formula that once you get it into your hands will help you to just print the dollares. Something like that does not exist.

    There are plenty of algos and bots in the markets today, but you have like many others the wrong understanding what these programs are supposed to do. Not everybody in the market is a retailer who wants to make 100% on his trading account per year. There are so many different market participants with different goals, some of these goals are pretty simple and so are their programs. Some are more sophisticated, but again, usually for a certain purpose which in most cases does not correspond with the goals and phantasies of a retail trader.

    I think the term orderflow is really overused, but it seems to work for all those teachers that always have to find something new to sell their seminars and courses.

    I dont want to write more in this thread now because it seems you have a completly different view on the reality of the markets than me, and it is hard to have a constructive discussion when the common fundament is missing.
    All I wanted to say and which is the essence of how I made this trading thing work for me is: dont overcomplicate things. Focus on basic stuff (in best case: on the pure market) and get really good at it. It will be rewarded.
    Maybe this wont help you, tylerbose, but I write here for all forum members and especially for the beginners and struggling traders. If at least one of them has some benefit from what I just wrote then it is already very nice :)
     
  6. mbondy

    mbondy

    I trade equities almost exclusively using the tape and depth of market. There is an edge.
     
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  7. CALLumbus

    CALLumbus


    Thats EXACTLY what I am talking about :)
     
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  8. tylerbose

    tylerbose

    Thank you for your input, i really appreciate.
    Like i said in the previous post i'm not looking for some trading/life philosophy nor a "holy grail".
    i'd like to have a debate about orderflow and the BOT dominance in it.
    i personally think human/retail can't compete, thats just my opinion.
    I'm here to listen to different opinions. Thats the purpose of this thread.

    Right or wrong doesn't matter, the point is to learn, its always good.

    Sorry if i seemed rude, that wasn't my goal, i just want to keep the thread on topic.

    I wish you a good day :)
     
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  9. Jack1960

    Jack1960

    With all the games machines play with order flow these days, it simply does not work anymore. It works only for those who are selling semibars, software and indicators to those who do not know any better.
     
  10. The DOM shows you all its good for knowing where traders are wrong. Checkout Jigsaws free stuff it shows you all the principals of orderflow the main thing is you practicing it. Forex is NOT the same as futures your not trading against your broker on a decentralized exchange



     
    #10     Jan 27, 2018
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