I disagree. If you're not able to make consistent money in today's market, then your mechanics of trading are too general and not applicable. Butch Harmon may be able to swing a club and critique someone else's stroke, but he can't play 18 holes worth a damn. A consistent trading strategy is teachable. Very few people actually have a good strategy and fewer still are willing to teach it.
OOH! That is SO true! Reminds me of certain posters who can't make money (who shall remain unnamed) looking for supercomputers, price acceleration, and other things that have nothing to do with greed, fear, or supply and demand. Do you really think that NYSE specialists backtest with supercomputers?? Probably not. And they still make money. I guess how good a guru is depends on the particular guru.
Dude you are way off. First off Marketwise does not profess to teach "secret" trading methods. They teach core trading concepts that every trader needs to know to become a successful active trader. Furthermore, our world is filled with examples where someone packages and delivers information for a fee that is readily available for a free if the person seeking to acquire it were so inclined to do so themselves. The rationale for paying the fee is about efficiency and convenience and in today's world, paying to shorten one's learning curve can be a very effective process in any endeavor- trading or otherwise. When you consider the market impact cost of a "newbie" making simple mistakes that will actually cost them lost capital, it can be a small price to pay. Do you really believe that each and every new trader entering the markets with little or no knowledge will be patient and aware enough of their own ignorance so as to avoid losing their capital while they learn the basics themselves? That is simply idiotic and for those that recognize that they cannot acheive it themselves and choose to pay for it are certainly smarter than the ones who blow up before they even knew what a moving average was, when to hit the bid or place an offer etc. Finally-and as a caveat/disclosure-I am a former instructor for Marketwise (though no longer affiliated with them) and I can assure you that David Nasser does not need to supplement his trading income with the school revenue. It is merely icing on the cake.
Do you also think college is a waste of money because you could have taught yourself? Some people are such egomaniacs!
Good post Tampa. Right on the money. There really are no secrets. Which is why I strongly feel that this pervasive belief that the great traders wouldn't share their "secrets" is so foolish. Nothing can replace experience. But certainly listening to experienced and successful traders can help newer traders, and newer traders should always be all ears. Learn one thing a day, and you will have spent a day productively. Are classes worth taking? Couldn't hurt. As has been said, there are basic concepts that can and should be learned and understood before exposing oneself to real life trading. The most valuble lessons, unfortunately, are learned from losing trades. Cost of learning. Avoiding some of the most common errors is always worth an attempt. If paying for these lessons works, I guess that's a good thing. But having never attended any of these "pay to learn" seminars, I leave the judgement of their value to those who have done it. I have seldom (if ever) come across a successful trader that was secretive about what they did. Are there traders that don't readily share? Yes, of course. But it isn't because they are afraid of losing their "edge" by divulging "secrets". It is just their personalities. Some people are helpful and some are not. To my experience there is no correlation between success and willingness to share. With penny spreads and active issues trading in excess of 20mm shares a day, what "secrets" can possibly affect someone's degree of success? There is nothing I know that I wouldn't share for fear of losing an "edge". And I truly believe that is how it is for virtually everyone. No one is taking money out of my pocket because I told them what I was doing. Truth is, nothing would be better for me than if everyone in the world did exactly what I did. Just a second or so after I did it. Peace, Rs7
That last post was so on the money. Especially the ending about everyone doing exactly what you did 1 second after. I agree that anyone who is scared? or apprehensive about sharing their strategies is foolish. They are catering to their ego which is telling them that they are smarter than the herd because they have 'figured out' something that works on a consistent basis. These things that work are indeed in about 100 books in any bookstore for $20 a piece, like an earlier poster said. The only thing that makes a system work is discipline. Its all about knowing when NOT to use your system or strategy because the market just isn't cooperating that day. Its always you versus you, HOWEVER if the FUTS are sideways and the COMPX is chopping in a 4 point range, then only discipline to sit on your hands will save you. I am all about NASDAQ (obviously), but what I just said is true for trend trading in any market. experience is worth a million seminars -francisco
i'm kind of new to trading - have been trading the s&p emini for the past 6 months unsuccessfully... i understand what you guys are saying... but at my level i really do need some help to get me over this learning curve. i have been on a few (no names mention...) 1 and 2 day seminars that have proven pretty unproductive - but have been told that there are some really good workshops where i can get practical experience by sitting next to actual successful traders and learn from them (like mentoring i guess...) - i dont mind paying - but just not sure where to look.... any ideas??
Before starting to trade I read all sorts of trading books and I believe that hurt me more than helped. If I were to start over I would have a basic understanding of the markets, know how to operate the software, and begin trading. There is no substitute for experience. I can't comment on workshops because I never attended one but if you were to chose the right one it might help by cutting the learning curve or point out a mistake you are making. The money someone would spend on "schools" would be better spent on losses in the market, and a notebook to analyze in detail why the loss occurred. Good luck on your search.