Discussion in 'Trading' started by neo_hr, Oct 11, 2001.
So what was your first trade like?
Well, to tell you the truth IT SCARED THE H** OUTTA ME! I was very (read : VERY!) nervous about getting long and I had a friend of mine who is trading for years and he was looking to buy AMD.
Now, instead of being comfortable with that trade, I was very shaky and I on top of that I made a stupid mistake. Luckily I lost 3$ only. Still, I thought Id never have a problem of pulling the trigger but... seems I've joined the club.
Voodoo, I feel we have a lot in common about the first trade. Only, I used IB (without getting to know the platform firstly , of course) and QuoteTracker. I keep planning to take a position, hold for like 1-5 days but since yesterday, I have learned that it really takes great nerves to do that. My dream is daytrading, but the new SEC rules screwed me up so... I would like to swing, but 1 to 2 day swings look like the MOST risky to me.
I dont know, I guess I have to adopt a new style or something and learn to do the thing you said excellent : NOT TO MAKE DECISIONS WHILE TRADING. They should be made the night before or have a system and stick to it.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR..... ARG! Now, you got me going... The more I think about it the more Im frustrated. Oh, yeah, not to forget I also trade "Scared money".
So, there you have it, Im insecure, uptight and banging my head up against the wall everytime as I watch guys from our chat room where we exchange ideas post good plays and I miss them all.
It very frustrating, and combined with fear of doing something wrong, .................
Good trading y'all!
Heres something to help you relive stress while trading...
My first venture into daytrading (or maybe second), I went long a 100sh of some stock (thinking I'd start small with less risk) and immediately started losing money. I didn't want to lose money my first day, so I held on figuring it would recover. I had a job so I left and went to work hoping it would recover and get me out of my mistake. I came home after work and found out it had dropped 16 points ($1,600). I had $10,000 scrounged up to open that account and lost 16% right off the bat. I know I pretty much lost that whole account over the next 8 months, so things didn't get better right away (my wife was very ticked when she found out). I have other painful stories, but that was my first experience.
Good stories....the lessons we go thru.
I was short in a nice slow slogger today that had broken support... in a down trend...doing all the right things like making lower highs and lower lows and was slowly filling its gap from the other day when WHAMO $7.0 to $8.80 in about 30 secs,NGEN
Gotta change my news source when holding antrax stocks.OUCH
Back in the dark ages, I used to schlep down to the Schwab office because that was my only source of real time quotes. I was living in Honolulu so my day started at about 2:45am or so.
Sometime ~1985, Schwab introduced "The Equalizer" an online trading program exclusive to SChwab. The best part was that I could get a real time quote for the stock I wanted to trade. Whooopeee!! Man, this was hot!
I don't remember any outstanding mistakes except for the part where an eighth of a point had to be entered in a certain way and I was always getting calls from Schwab on this. I do remember that I was nervous as hell doing my first on line trade. Back in the Schwab office, I could have a counter person do it. Now it was up to me.
Nobody knew what they were doing. I would screw up an entry, Schwab in NY would screw up on on-line orders as well. I seem to remember that one of the customer service people told me how my order was executed..it went something like this: I would dial up Schwab, enter my order. Then some guy got it in Sanfrancisco, I think, and had to walk it over to another desk who would then telex it or otherwise relay it to NY to some guy at an order desk. Then the order would be phoned to the floor and, well, we know what happens then.
Or that's what they claimed. Now that I think about it, I wonder how many orders were actually filled in house and never made it to the floor. In reality, I could get a confirmation in about ten minutes after order entry.
Wife just got back...time for a gin and tonic. You all have as good a weekend as you can, considering everything. See ya Monday.
One simple question :
CAN IT REALLY BE LEARNED? As I said before, you know what my intended tyle was, what I did etc. but... somehow... theese two days made me realise how hard it really is. I mean, there we are , in the chat room, same 10ish guys like every day, I have my 3 or 4 stocks I found last night...but when the market opens, I dont know, something happens and I dont know what to do.
Do I follow theese stocks? Or the ones that others post and say lika: "AOL setting up, jump in at ...". And If I followed their lead Id do really well... or do I look at my QT or IQChart? Or do I chat a little? And then IB order entry... Finally, I lust end up looking at the stock moving away from me.
I guess Im at the point where I have klearned all the theory (well, most of it), position sizing etc. but now comes the hard oart - incorporating it all into a meaningful structure. And sticking to it.
HOW TO DO IT? For ex. like driving, we all learn at first what is the wheel, what is the clutch, how to shift to another gear etc etc etc, but then after a while comes a time where it all becomes subconsious. And you start to focus on the driving style, when to break, when to accelerate, how to get into a curve , how to race... Finally you became a driver. Bad one firstly but then you improve a little...
Is there such a point in trading, and how to get there?Or just some advice on how to ease the pain
Any advice more than welcome
I like to drink a bottle of cheap whiskey and beat the kids. That eases the pain.
Seriously though... weightlifting, meditation, yoga, sex, there's all kinds of things you can do to ease the pain. It might not make a losing day seem any better but it does take the edge off.
Ok neo_hr, here's my .02 - my basic advice for a beginner FWIW
Yes, trading can be learned - but one thing to consider is that, while there is plenty of common ground, every trader will develop his own personal style. It's great that you have friends doing this, but don't be overwhelmed by them, and you may not necessarily want to copy their style/strategy, especially if they are day trading and you will be swing trading.
I think your observation about the risk in 1-2 day positions is right-on. But that is partially because currently have no well defined trend. No one knows for sure if/when we will test our recent bottom or drop past it. Right now it is very difficult to predict the near term trend.
The often used phrase "the trend is your friend" is a valid one. But the crucial aspect, although not mentioned, is the time frame for the trend in question. If, by necessety, you will be a swing trader, then start watching the way the market oscillates. Look at 3 month charts of the Nasdaq Comp. Look at 6 month charts, 1yr charts, 5 yr charts, 10 yr etc.
When you think you can identify a general trend (which may not even be possible right now) , look again at the 3 month chart and look at the shorter fluctuations - the highs, the lows and what goes in between. Do trades only when you think you know what you the longer term trend is and trade in that direction. And enter those trades only when the shorter term oscillation looks like it is just beginning to move in the same direction as the longer trend.
For example, if the long term trend is up, then look at the shorter term fluctuations. If the market has been going up three days then down three day then back up again - try to buy when the short term trend is STARTING to move up, because if it has just moved up three days in a row it may be ready to reverse.
This is a conservative approach, and one which will not have you entering positions every day.
GENERAL TIPS: Open only one position at a time. Keep the position small and thus relieve stress/pressure which can make logical reasoning nearly impossible. As soon as you enter your position prepare your order to close - keep your finger on the trigger until you see which way it goes. Then you can take your finger off the mouse but still must watch it closely. If a position moves your way you might want to 'bank' 1/2 and let the remainder ride. Be aware of when your stock is due to report earnings and either don't trade it or be extremely careful for several days before and a couple days after it reports.
I could tell you my own 'bungled trade' stories that rival the best, but instead I will say that my biggest mistakes were made when when:
1) I got impatient and wanted to make a lot of $ as fast as possible
2) I had several successful trades in a row and somehow started to assume that I was always right
P.S. i just re-read your last post, so i would like to add that, IMO, it is best to totally avoid chat rooms where advice is offered on what stocks to trade. I agree that finding the right stocks to trade can be difficult, but that is a whole different subject. On the chat boards, 1/2 may be honest...of that group 1/2 may be competent so your down to 1/4 good advice (I am being kind here, it is probably WAY less). Even if you find good advice you have to consider the time lag...also what time frame is the other guy looking at, etc. etc
Just wanted to thank you all for being honest and sharing what you have learned so far. THX and especially you roger for this lengthy post!
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