Trading for a living & taxes in EU

Discussion in 'Taxes and Accounting' started by w4rri0r, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. schweiz


    To go for professional advice.
    #41     Feb 23, 2018
    HobbyTrading likes this.
  2. Onra


    Well, the sun is shining here!
    If you invested as an individual they charge you basically from the list that Schweiz published; (about the brackets and Taxable assets #28)
    But you have to report; they want to check you don't use any illegal money.

    It's a 01/01/2017 asset story over here for 2017.
    You should have moved in 2017, because you'll be in trouble for owning that much at 01/01/2018...
    I hope the Belgians let you walk away with this...
    #42     Feb 23, 2018
  3. schweiz


    Tax people cannot trace bitcoins. So he can get away with it. But he should not spent too much money because that's how they catch you.
    #43     Feb 23, 2018
  4. mccc


    I'll pay Belgian taxes over my 2017 income, just looking to continue my trading abroad as soon as possible.
    But is trading derivatives all day considered a normal management of your wealth? I don't want to move to the Netherlands only to find out months later that I'm getting hit with income tax. I'd rather go somewhere else and pay 15-20% where I have legal certainty.

    I will. Just doing my own research first so I know what to expect.
    For example, is it hard to get a work visa as a trader? If so, my options are limited to within the EU.
    #44     Feb 23, 2018
  5. Quiet1


    the question is complicated by your own aims: do you want to make AND spend a lot of money or do you want to make the money and keep as much of it as possible to grow your wealth?

    if it's the former you need a low personal tax rate; if it's the latter then maybe you can consider incorporating in a low corporate tax country and pay yourself a small salary as an expense of the company. corporation tax in the UK for example is 20% of profits.
    #45     Feb 23, 2018
  6. schweiz


    #46     Feb 23, 2018
  7. henry76


    I believe the Bahamas has no tax and no reporting /record keeping needs for foreigners who are resident.
    #47     Feb 23, 2018
  8. mccc


    I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be. I spent a lot of time reading this thread from start to finish. dw31583 makes it clear that having an offshore company while trading elsewhere isn't legal and will result in you being taxed in your country of residence if you make enough money to show up on the radar. Actually moving there is the only safe way, but then you have to get a work permit or buy your way into residency. The Netherlands will in all likelihood be taxed at income tax if you do frequent trading, so I won't risk it.

    So the remaining easy low-tax countries are Isle of Man, Estonia, Bulgaria and Hungary. Not the most interesting countries to live in. Estonia stands out because of their modern IT, making it very easy to register the company and file taxes online. The only tax is a 20% tax on dividends.
    I still want to explore what's possible in other countries in terms of obtaining tax residency. HK and Singapore have too high investment requirements for me. UAE is only a $5000 investment and you pay zero taxes, but they've been blowing hot and cold on cryptocurrencies. Moving to the Bahamas or Panama might be asking for trouble. Any other countries I should consider?
    #48     Feb 23, 2018
  9. schweiz



    A lot of dreamers here. All these offshore and similar constructions don't work anymore.
    Your physical presence is necessary in the country where you wish to pay low taxes.

    You need also a substantial amount of profits EVERY year. I don't know your situation, but making a lucky 1 million shot with bitcoins is not enough. You should make at least 500-1000K EVERY year over and over again. If not the savings are too small for the work, the risk and the probably lower lifestyle you will have. Lower taxes are mostly in corrupt or not safe countries.

    Can you not trade in your personal name? Why start a business and make expenses and having to follow a lot of rules? In Europe you are free to move anywhere and you will always receive a permission for a long stay, at least if you proof you will not cause any financial problems for that country (enough capital or income and a good health care insurance).

    What is clear is that you will have to leave Belgium to proof that you should not pay taxes there anymore. Don't forget that the 183 days rule cannot be applied in this case as there is no minimum or maximum stay mentioned in the law.

    What will be used against you as they will try to taxe you:
    • where are your family living (wife, children)
    • do you have a bank account in Belgium?
    • do you have property in Belgium?
    • do you have a mobile phone number in Belgium?
    • do you spent money in Belgium wirh a foreign creditcard frequently?
    • can they trace your mobile phone( evne a foreign number) many times in Belgium? Mobile phones are very dangerous as they give a lot of information. Rule is to never take your mobile phone with you wj-hen going to Belgium.
    • etc, etc...
    There seems to be a fiscal ruling that you have to pay 30% taxes on bitcoin profits. But if you trade too frequent it will be taxed as income from an economical activity. Add to that social security you will have to pay and the total taxation will be around 70%. Your tax services will try to catch the 70%, not the 30%.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
    #49     Feb 24, 2018
    mccc likes this.
  10. Quiet1


    I wasn't talking about offshore. I meant someone with whatever right to live somewhere can also potentially save tax by incorporating in the same location. It's entirely legitimate and professional thing to do.
    #50     Feb 24, 2018