Trading for a living & taxes in EU

Discussion in 'Taxes and Accounting' started by w4rri0r, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. Quiet1


    I think that if you trade professionally via spread-betting HMRC will not allow you to do so tax-free if it's your main source of income. Assuming they find out. Even if you do it limits your ability to get tax relief on pension contributions.
    #11     Feb 19, 2018
  2. tomorton


    Its been said before that spreadbetters winning a "living" must pay UK Income Tax. I can't recall any one of these traders coming forward and saying so on a forum.

    However, there have been posts on forums that I have seen in which a trader said he had attempted to be classed as professional by HMRC and was rejected. My accountant some years ago told me he had seen more than one such case. is clear in stating that winnings from gambling will not be taxable.
    #12     Feb 19, 2018
    Xela likes this.
  3. Quiet1


    Fair point. You're just more in a grey area at the very least and subject to the whims of tax enforcement. If you get away with it fine, I just wouldn't like the threat court proceedings and of paying X years back tax hanging over me. It's certainly nothing to boast about (yay I get to live in a civilised country without paying for it, yippee!).
    #13     Feb 19, 2018
  4. tomorton


    Living off your own resources without claiming benefits, while still paying indirect taxation through everything you buy, still paying local taxation and also for so many government services, is something to be proud of. Recognise that the SB firms pay tax on their revenue so in that sense SB is not tax-free, its just the personal winnings from it that are tax-free.
    #14     Feb 19, 2018
  5. Is one possibility:

    1) Create an offshore entity (for example a company in Singapore with favorable capital gains tax)
    2) Open bank and brokerage account for that entity
    3) Run it legitimately as an independent company and all trades are executed in that company's name
    4) Draw a salary from that company (a decent amount)
    5) Pay taxes on that salary
    6) The bulk of the money remains in the company's name in Singapore
    7) When you are ready to 'retire', leave your home country for one year, establish tax residency somewhere with favorable tax rates, and transfer the bulk of the assets into your name (or continue to run it as an independent company and pay yourself a higher payout).
    #15     Feb 19, 2018
    trader42 likes this.
  6. d08


    No offense intended but I'm not sure you know what you're talking about re: taxes. Unless you have actually done it yourself and drastically (over 50%) reduced your own taxes, in which case I take it back.

    It's easy to do it but probably not so easy to get away with it, most tax collectors globally are leaning against you if there's any doubt if you were liable. They are all too happy to go to court because for them it's a daily occurrence, for the average tax-payer, taking the government to court is not.
    There are cases where people settle just because the cost of the trial is getting out of hand and while the case would be won, people give up just to save money.
    How you describe it as is just plain...naive, to me anyway.

    Tax topic is always important for people, even if the incomes are moderate. Money saved is money gained.

    I still like the 911 but I don't think much about it. Modern cars are quite unreliable due to all the tech and I'm not eager to spend a fortune on the constant repairs, especially for a luxury vehicle. I can't say I obsess over material things as much as I used to.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    #16     Feb 19, 2018
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  7. schweiz


    It is clear that you are not speaking from personal experience. Because then you would not write such a nonsense.
    The only advice I can give is: don't do this, go to a professional for advice!

    If you cannot pay for that advice it means you don't make enough money to make it worth to do anything but stay where you are and pay.
    #17     Feb 19, 2018
  8. schweiz


    The only advice I can give is: go to a professional for advice! He will tellyou what is possible.

    I will never share my situation on internet. Maybe you are working for some taxation administration and trying to catch people. On internet you never who you are speaking with.
    I even don't share this with my best friends.
    #18     Feb 19, 2018
    Xela likes this.
  9. schweiz


    Is daytrading not considered as gambling? But if you make consistently money they will argue that itis not gambling.
    Be careful because definitions are such that taxpeople can always interprete it their way, and then it is to you to proof the opposite.
    The general rule followed by taxation people is: if he make s money it is income; if he loses money it is not income.
    So you pay if you win, and you cannot deduct if you lose.
    #19     Feb 19, 2018
  10. tomorton


    Day or any trading via spreadbetting is counted as gambling and the gains are therefore exempt from UK Income Tax. The tax authorities have said so repeatedly and over a long period to my knowledge. The story is they don't want to subject the winners to tax as then these same traders could claim tax back in losing years, as well as certain other "business" expenses, so its a poor risk for the taxman.

    The closest they have come is top say that if income is derived from services provided to other traders who are engaged in SB - e.g. tips, information, advisory services etc., this income stream would be taxable.

    The situation isn't that traders have been trying to evade being taxed, serious UK traders have tried to get their trading gains recognised as income and been rejected every time. This could explain why so many of them as well as trading also sell training courses, books, seminars and the like. Otherwise, they would possibly have zero verifiable income and there can be advantages in having an income you can prove.
    #20     Feb 19, 2018