Trading for a living & taxes in EU

Discussion in 'Taxes and Accounting' started by w4rri0r, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. w4rri0r


    Trading for a living & taxes in EU
    Trading for a living & taxes in the Netherlands/Switzerland/Germany (and/or other EU states)

    Are there any Dutch/Swiss/German/Lux/Austria traders here, who trade for a living ( for themselves, i.e., not as a trader for a trading firm or bank)?

    If so, how have you arranged your taxes? Have you created an onshore, or perhaps even an offshore business entity, through which you trade?
    Do you (still) pay ordinary income tax?
    What are the options that are available, and from what level(s) of equity does it pay to go for construction ABC or go for construction XYZ?

    Additionally, does it matter what you trade, tax wise? (For example, is there a fiscal difference between making a living trading cash forex, which is traded in the interbank market (so not in any specific country), and trading US stocks?)

    If there's anyone who could shed some light on this matter, I would be very grateful.

  2. schweiz


    Maybe tell first if you want to really move to another country. I mean really live there all year.
    If not the list will be very short or even no existent if you want to keep it legal. Simulations are almost not working anymore anywhere.

    Are you an American citizen? Because that might cause a lot of problems for the European available solutions. Not from Europe but from IRS. Europe reports every year all bankaccounts and other financial data to the IRS.

    Net income should be at least 500,000 euro ( every year), if not it is not cheaper then paying where you live.
  3. w4rri0r


    @schweiz hi,
    i'm an EU citizen and i'm looking around because i want to move, yes for real and legal (don't really understand the question....are you hinting at something?)
    Netherland/Switzerland/Germany/Luxembourg/Austria and maybe Slovenia ... one of those would be great ....and i'm not interested in cheaper solution, otherwise i would move to Bulgaria, Romania or Cipro or Malta

    and I'm not interested in too much expensive solutions like Monaco or Liechtenstein

    Not a fan of the east of EU

    I know in switzerland (not EU but almost there....) if trading activities provide more than 50% of the income, one will be charged as professional...but it's not clear how much it will pay and if one need to incorporate an entity like a SAGL (GmbH), if licenses are needed and so on ... maybe you will be able to shed some light on you?
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  4. henry76


    You could try Andorra or Gibraltar , many Brits do , you don't really need to live there , just own a cheap apartment , just enough to convince your tax inspector you no longer live in your home country , UK will "probably" be leaving EU shortly (ish).
  5. Pekelo


    Just how grateful are we talking about?

    Joking aside, let's say I figured out a legal way to minimize my taxes. Why would I share it with anyone for free? Also if too many people start to use it it might become a crowded trade, so to speak.
    d08 likes this.
  6. d08


    The days of just creating an offshore LLC in the Caribbean and living in Europe are over I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    If it was that easy to arrange things, why would anyone in Germany, Netherlands or Belgium pay taxes on trading income? Most working tax holes are probably quite closely guarded and no-one will share them for free.
    schweiz likes this.
  7. tomorton


    If you don't mind being taken out of the EU in a couple of years, you could move to the UK and trade via spreadbetting. This is legal here, controlled by the financial regulator and totally tax-free - no need to form a company or even complete a tax return. The leverage rates are under threat however so more capital may soon be needed than currently.
  8. Taxes, and legal tax loopholes/or minimizing taxes, are not rocket science...all you have to do is research it yourself briefly, and ask around to real tax professionals (and maybe lawyers too) inevitably make it happen.

    Make a bundle in 2018, d08...High-Five` o_O
    Do you still desire a Porsche 911, or has that waned out a bit by now,

    For most traders worldwide, this tax topic is not even worthwhile discussing -- Unless you are one of the ultra rare less than 1% who can actually produce fruitfully, relatively consistently.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  9. henry76


    I suspect those days are far from over , tax avoidance for even semi wealthy individuals is , I believe, on the increase in the uk (and probably eu), in fact a story in last few days of a BBC journalist / news reader has been had up for I think half a million ish in non paid tax because she had her "salary" paid into a company , apparently this was standard practice at the time , but it's my view tax avoidance is becoming more common since the internet, knowledge and ease of company formations becoming more widespread.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  10. Quiet1


    The BBC case was an IR35 issue (specific tax regulations to deal with cases where you are paid as if you are an independent contractor with all the rights to substitute, choose hours and make decisions over how you work but actually looking at what you actually do you are more like an employee). When IR35 came in (in year 2000) things were a lot worse in terms of tax cheating because there were no hard rules to stop people doing this. It was rife in IT world for example.
    #10     Feb 19, 2018