Trading better with TS6 ?

Discussion in 'Trading' started by TraderBob, Apr 12, 2002.

  1. Was just wondering for those who have used or are currently using Tradestation 6 whether you are more profitable as a result.

    Just signed up for TS6 and it has a lot of bells and whistles that appear to offer value but do the "frills" really make a difference in terms of your bottom line P/L ?
     
  2. no they dont.the differance is in your head.pattern recognition and emotions.
    without that you can have a dozen indicators on your chart and you still wont trade profitably.
     
  3. Magna

    Magna Administrator

    Amen, perfectly stated.
     
  4. TraderBob:

    My thoughts on Tradestation are that it is an excellent tool for backtesting trading ideas and implimenting a mechanical trading system.

    I would argue that many of its system performance indicators are at best useless and at worst very misleading. (Eg, Total Net Profit, Max Intraday Drawdown and others, although they help sell books/systems.)

    However, as far as a commercially available system testing tool goes, I find tradestation an excellent platform. Discussion of its shortcomings (system peformance, optimization etc) are a bit beyond the scope of this thread, but feel free to contact me.

    Daniel
     
  5. vikana

    vikana Moderator

    the most important aspect of TradeStation (Metastock, Wealth-lab etc) is that they allow you to eliminate strategies that don't work. If you cannot describe your strategy precisely enough that you can code it profitably, chance are that you cannot execute it under fire (ie with money) either.
     
  6. What about traders that rely on their own descretion for entering/exiting trades? Although these traders may look at indicators and charts part of their decision is based on their own understanding of what is happening. Surely you're not suggesting that trading cannot possibly be profitable?

    I would simply say that the value of programs such as those you mentioned diminishes significantly for a descretionary approach.

    Daniel
     
  7. Kymar

    Kymar

    "the differance is in your head."

    Could be... Who knows? Maybe you don't need charts (or for that matter a spell-checker) at all - just trust the force... or...

    A couple specific ideas:

    If you're trying to enter or exit a relatively large position, especially in a relatively illiquid stock trading with a wide spread, then the advanced order options (esp. "Peg" and "Show Only") can help a lot - the software's a lot faster than anyone's hot keys.

    The new per-share pricing works very well with Auto-Limit orders: As the trade's moving in your favor, you can scale out (or scale in - not that I often do, but you could) lot by lot, wiggle by wiggle, target by target.

    More generally:

    Rather than trying to make TS6 work like RealTick or CyberTrader, depending on linking and quote screens to bring up stocks, or relying on market scans, set up stock-specific and condition-specific workspaces ahead of time, keep them open simultaneously, page through them at will, and let the triggered alerts (based on a drawing tools or indicators) guide you instantly to where you need to be. Write analysis tools that will highlight and specify tradable patterns and price levels. Learn to use the template functions to save time and energy applying analysis set-ups to charts. Move a step further and write signals that will create ready-to-go orders when desired conditions are met.

    Experiment with back-testing capabilities: Even if you don't intend to system-trade, you can learn a lot from seeing how different trading rules perform under diverse market conditions and on diverse stocks.

    See whether intensive longer-term analysis employing "custom" indicators and settings yields tradable ideas and insights.

    Set up a trade review workspace, break down your trades in detail. Add ScreenPrint or some other .gif-making program, save the results, and show 'em off.

    In short, play with the software - have some fun with it. Be prepared for extensive trial-and-error as you bend it to your purposes. Read EasyLanguage texts, study supplied and third party functions, indicators, and signals. Get to know other users, and be grateful when they lead you to some new trick or technique. If you don't like that kind of thing, but still want to take advantage of the software's full capabilities, you may even want to consider paying a consultant for lessons.

    Anyway, that's what comes to me this morning...
     
  8. vikana

    vikana Moderator

    I agree completely with your comments: I have certain types of trades that I can execute profitably but cannot code with the same degree of consistiency. In general, however, I still believe that if you cannot code it, it's unlikely that you can trade it profitably.
     
  9. Kymar

    Kymar

    "I still believe that if you cannot code it, it's unlikely that you can trade it profitably."

    I think the opposite is true: It you (i.e., the average or even above average programmer) CAN code it (using TS or other similar programs), then the odds are strongly against your being able to trade it profitably in the real world. Otherwise, you'd be hearing about got-rich-quick system traders every day...

    There are also conditions which could theoretically be coded, but which would require far above average programming skills, and probably much more advanced software than offered by TS, Wealth-Lab, or anyone else, and far above average hardware and database as well.

    Just to give one example, maybe I want to focus on intraday moves out of tight, strictly defined consolidations, supported by trend in market breadth and relative sector strength, and largely unimpeded by significant support/resistance between entry and target on intraday or daily time frames, or by support/resistance in major indices. I COULD come up with the code for much of that, but, even presuming that the result could be implemented practically (a big presumption), and that the numerous "fuzzy" matters could be satisfactorily resolved or fudged (an even bigger presumption, IMO), by the time I had written, de-bugged, tested, and implemented it, and then re-written, re-tested, and re-debugged it, and so on, months, if not years, might well have gone by - and that would still leave numerous execution issues to be solved.

    Computers and systems are neat, not to mention very useful, but they're still way behind our brains and minds... well, in many cases... :p
     
  10. "Could be... Who knows? Maybe you don't need charts (or for that matter a spell-checker) at all - just trust the force... or"

    i never said you don't need charts.you certainly do.i understood his question to be will adding the several dozen indicators that ts has to his charts make him a better trader.i don't think so.at most a couple of standard indicators should do.most indicators basically do the same thing.and they all are a derivative of the price so they always lag the price.
    i have been down that road too.started with cyber then real tick,then aiq,then eq and now am playing with ts.i used to think there was some kind of holy grail or system that would work.if there is i haven't found it.i think it boils down to this.breakout or support and resistance stadgey will cover most of what you need.if you have a couple of indicators that help you with these patterns its probably all you need.after that if you can get your emotions under control so you don't make the mistakes that ruin your p&l you should be ok.
    i have traded with some great traders in the last few years and they all seem to have as little as possible as far as indicators go.
    here is something else to think about.the big funds have billions and have access to the smartest programers in the world and have the latest software that anyone has and yet most cant even match the s&p on a long term basis.why?
     
    #10     Apr 13, 2002