traders who are deeply religious

...and so by that statement you contradict yourself by offering up the tautology you say isn't there. What don't you understand about that?

 

Please demonstrate.

 

I hadn’t, but now will.

We know by observation that all non-eternal things are caused. In the mind, we can conceive truths that are eternal and unchanging. For example, a thing cannot be both existent and non-existent simultaneously. That is an eternal truth upon which other truths may depend, but itself depends on no other truth to be known. The existence of these other truths depends on a self-evident truth; they have a cause that is self-evident or cause-less.

Therefore, the statement, “All effects have a cause except an ultimate cause” is true and not tautological.

In the non-abstract, we can conceive of something called God. In order for this to be true of God, God must be eternal. Or, if God is eternal, he meets the requirement of being an ultimate cause.

When you propose that all things are caused, and that therefore God doesn’t exist as a First Cause (because he violates the rule of causality, needing himself to be caused), you are proposing an infinite series of causes, which is meaningless; like a bunch of mailmen delivering an infinite series of letters, but no one wrote a letter.

 

translation: i dont have any evidence god exists but if i babble enough nonsense i might convince sombody that its possible.

 

What's wrong with the evidence just presented?

You wouldn't happen to have a substantive thought on the subject.

Or were you just passing by and thought you'd throw another rotten egg out the window?

 

whats wrong is you just made it all up. even if it were correct you would have to ask yourself this question: the bible says that the most important thing to god is that you "believe". why would god go to all of your elaborate theories to hide himself? if god only makes himself understandable by believing convoluted nonsense it almost seems like a game of hide and seek. would god go to extreme lengths to hide himself and thereby condeming billions to hell because they didnt have a superstitious mind?

 

Which part?

The part about, “a thing cannot be both existent and non-existent simultaneously?” Do you have a specific disagreement, or have you just chosen to disagree, in principle, with anything I say – another rotten egg out the window?

Aren’t you the same fellow who didn’t like my physics? Where have you been hiding? I thought you were going to tell me what was wrong with my logic. Remember this?
“
Quote from vhehn:no i dont. i only know you from what you post here. when you try to tell me that you have figured out that 6 days in the bible equals 14 billion years i am bound to get the impression that you are doing contortions to make the evidence fit your book.
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... because of the specific lapse in logic shown in my previous post where? All I'm hearing is presupposition; the presupposition that because you don't like it, it therefore isn't.

Since you obviously have such a strong grasp on the subject, feel free to chime in with an answer to the following questions:
1. What is the temp of quark confinement?
2. What is the CBR temp (I gave this away in a previous post)?
3. What is the probable time dilation between 1 and 2?
“
It's obvious you don't have a clue, and I respond to you anyway.

Here’s the thing:

What you’ve done is define God by your own beliefs. Look at the questions you ask. You’re saying “If God ...” but you don’t know God, nor whether any of your beliefs about him are true. You DO know that if he has certain characteristics then he’s not much of a God, and to that I would agree.

Any God of which you can conceive isn’t a God who is big enough to create the universe. You can only understand of him what he has chosen to reveal, and if you ignore what he has revealed, you’ll never know him. That’s why Jesus said, paraphrasing, “If anyone chooses to do his will he will know the truth.” Elsewhere, it’s written (paraphrasing), “Because they chose to reject him, God has sent them a powerful delusion.”

In other words, knowing God’s character is conditional upon first accepting him; thinking that it is rational to reject God is a delusion.

I see this life as a test. If you pass the test you find God, salvation, and eternal life with him. Jesus said it was really tough. Mat 7:13-14 Go in through the narrow gate. The gate to destruction is wide, and the road that leads there is easy to follow. A lot of people go through that gate. But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.

People like yourself – assuming you choose never to accept him – fail the test.

Should you ever want to, however, read Romans 10:9-10.

Like I said, it’s a tough test.

You God-haters eventually get what you want: eternal separation from God. But, it’s not final yet.

 

What is a God-hater?

 

Thats someone who believes in a higher power but not christianities version of it

 

Here's some stuff ....

first up ..... we have tha "man" yeah,.. its DAF de Sade.

"Dialogue between a Priest and a Dying Man"

http://www.freethoughtfirefighters.org/SADE_dialogue_between_a_priest_and_a_dying_man.htm

Then its Dostoevsky doing ..... "The Grand Inquisitor"

http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/philosophy/existentialism/dostoevsky/grand.html

... rj