Traders Lose Due To "tilt"

Discussion in 'Trading' started by limitupmike2, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. This is the main reason most of you who lose on this site are losing and because you are trading udnercapitalized with tight stops!!

    ON TILT from wikipedia

    Tilt (poker)
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    Tilt is a poker term for a state of mental confusion or frustration in which a player adopts a less than optimal strategy, usually resulting in the player becoming over-aggressive. This term is closely associated with steam and some consider the terms equivalent, but 'steam' typically carries more anger and intensity.[1]

    Placing an opponent on tilt or dealing with being on tilt oneself is an important aspect of poker. It is a relatively frequent occurrence due to frustration, animosity against other players, or simply bad luck. Experienced players recommend learning to recognize that one is experiencing tilt and avoid allowing it to influence one’s play.

    The most likely origin of the word "tilt" is as a reference to tilting a pinball machine. The frustration from seeing the ball follow a path towards the gap between the flippers can lead to the player physically tilting the machine (in an attempt to guide the ball towards the flippers). However, in doing so, some games will flash the word "TILT" and freeze the flippers, causing the ball to be lost for certain. The metaphor here being over-aggression due to frustration leads to severely detrimental gameplay.

    Contents [hide]
    1 Being “on tilt”
    2 Advice when tilted
    3 Tilting others
    4 See also
    5 References

    [edit] Being “on tilt”
    The most common way to "tilt" is losing, often a recent victim of a bad beat, or being defeated in a particularly public and humiliating fashion.

    For example:

    1.Folding to a large bet only to have your opponent turn over a poor hand (being shown a bluff).
    2.Being bluffed by a small bet (a post oak bluff).
    3.Having an opponent “suck out,” or catch a miracle card late in the hand (an unlikely out-draw).
    4.Having what you think is a dominating hand bested by an unexpected more powerful hand.
    5.Standing up to an overly aggressive player who plays nearly every pot but encountering a big hand.
    6.Having an all-in showdown with a strongly superior hand pre-flop and losing.
    7.In online Poker, putting a lot of money into the pot with the likely best hand, and not being able to see the showdown due to internet connection failure or software crash.
    8.Making a bad play and realizing it afterward
    9.Misclicking in online poker and losing a big pot as a result (like clicking call instead of fold to an all-in)
    These can upset the mental equilibrium essential for optimal poker judgment. Another common way to tilt is from bad behavior of the others at the poker table. Excessive rudeness (or lewdness), being heavily intoxicated at the table, and poor table etiquette are ways that players can wear on nerves.

    Though not as commonly acknowledged or discussed, it is also quite possible to go on "winner's tilt" as a result of a positive trigger: such as winning a hand unexpectedly, being awarded a large pot, or making the money in a tournament. Strong positive emotions can be just as dizzying and detrimental to one's play as negative ones. "Winner's tilt" can be just as dangerous as the more traditional form.

    [edit] Advice when tilted
    For the beginning player, the elimination or minimization of tilt is considered an essential improvement that can be made in play (for instance in the strategic advice of Mike Caro and especially, Lou Krieger). Many advanced players (after logging thousands of table-hours) claim to have outgrown “tilt” and frustration, although other poker professionals admit it is still a “leak” in their game.

    One commonly suggested way to fight tilt is to disregard the outcomes of pots, particularly those that are statistically uncommon. So-called “bad beats,” when one puts a lot of chips in the pot with the best hand and still loses, deserve little thought; they are the product of variance, not bad strategy. This mindset calls for the player to understand poker is a game of decisions and correct play in making the right bets over a long period of time.

    Another method for avoiding tilt is to try lowering one’s variance, even if that means winning fewer chips overall. Therefore, one may play passively and fold marginal hands, even though that may mean folding the winning hand. This may also imply that one plays tightly— and looks for advantageous situations.

    Once tilt begins, players are well-advised to leave the table and return when emotions have subsided. When away from the table, players are advised to take time to refresh themselves, eat and drink (non-alcoholic) if necessary, and take a break outside in the fresh air.

    If none of these work in lessening tilt, players are advised to leave the game and not return to playing until they have shaken off the results that led to the tilt.

    The intent of the advice is to prevent the upset person from letting negative emotions lead to bigger losses that can seriously hurt one’s bankroll.

    [edit] Tilting others
    The act of putting an opponent on tilt may not pay off in the short run, but if some time is put into practicing it, a player can quickly become an expert at “tilting” other players (with or without using bad manners). In theory, the long-run payoff of this tactic is a monetarily positive expectation.

    Common methods of putting a table on tilt include:

    1.Playing junk hands that have a slight chance of winning in the hope of sucking out on the turn at the river and delivering a bad beat (which can be an enjoyable occasional style which will make the table’s play “looser”.)
    2.Victimising individuals at the table, (which is often considered a more old-fashioned tactic, identified with 1970s “verbal” experts such as Amarillo Slim.)
    3.Pretending intoxication, i.e., hustling, excellently demonstrated by Paul Newman against Robert Shaw in The Sting (although his technique included cheating).
    4.Constant chattering, making weird noises and motions whenever you win a hand, or other erratic behavior is a “tilting” or “loosening” approach first discussed by Mike Caro.
    5.Taking an inordinate or otherwise inappropriate amount of time to announce and show your hand (also called "slow-rolling") at the showdown. (Such deliberate breaches of etiquette have the side effect of slowing play and risking barring, thereby limiting the earnings of the expert player. For this, and other social reasons, such tactics are mostly associated with novices.)
    These antics can upset the other players at the table with the intention of getting them to play poorly.
  2. Its obvious you are basing this assumption on the wikipedia article, not trading experience(if you really have any). Save the B.S. poker philosophy for the World Poker Tour....
  3. zdreg


    there are many parallels between trading and poker playing.
  4. no disrespect but

    you mean there are parallels between "gambling while trading" and poker

    my interpretation of what professional trading is does not include that particular sub-set deviant behavior.

    poker is a game of luck and skill

    while professional trading is an activity based on knowledge
  5. zdreg


    I wrote my thoughts exactly as intended.

    no disrespect taken.

    there is plenty of bluffing etc. when trading.
  6. Gcapman


    very true..good post!
  7. -1
  8. The cure to this and all other trading ills is disciplined rigorous adherence to a thoroughly backtested system. I am ceaselessly amazed at all the bullshit that swirls around proper mental attitude and mental control in trading. No doubt written by posters who are not systematic traders.
  9. Please elaborate on how success ties in with proper capitalization and loose stops. Also, how do you define under-capitalization?
    How does under-capitalization and tight stops got to do with "tilt"? :confused:

    I am just a confused newbie.

  10. You did not even bother to clean up the text. Next time, pls just give a link and the part you think applies. In this case, this example was complete noise...

    One of the worst new threads in a while...
    #10     Feb 14, 2010