Trader Tax

Discussion in 'Trading' started by FutsTrader111, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. I know there is already an existing trader tax thread going on but I wanted to start a new one because it is clear to me that many have not read Defazio's H.R. 1068 set out to impose a 0.25% tax on all trades.

    Here it is:

    Please read it and then comment.

    My thoughts:

    0) This is not a "traders tax". Its an investors tax. Do not let Defazio make this bill seem like it affects the "wall street trader". Investors are also affected by this bill. Do not call yourself a trader. Call yourself an investor to avoid any media backlash against public perception (i.e. Enron trader)

    1) This bill was created to "take it out on Wall Street" and remarkably will include American investors hurt by the financial fallout through their underwater stocks, options, and future instruments held before the crash.

    2) The creators of this bill do not understand the difference between "Wall Street" and "Main Street investor". The American investor is not Wall Street.

    3) There is NO discussion of how much tax can be raised per year as well as in what time frame the law would no longer be in effect. Without these numbers, it is unjust to support this bill without full facts and data held before the American public to make a conscious decision.

    4) This bill calls for elimination of the tax after all proceeds have been repaid. When will that be and shouldn't the tax take that into account? For example if it is desired to raise $700 billion, how fast do you want this money? 6 months? 1 year? 3 years? If so, give us some numbers so that WE can tell YOU what is fair in amount of trader tax.

    5) This bill has potential to damage the entire financial services industry including investment advisors, brokerage firms, investment companies, heck any company involved in some way with the financial markets. It will create more unemployment and cause more expenditures for the unemployed.

    6) The additional tax would all but eliminate frequent trading as it would be too costly for the typical investor. Investing is a right for all citiizens, not just for the wealthy. This bill discriminates against small investors.

    For example, a typical $250,000 brokerage account turned over 4 times would incur a minimum $4,000 in taxes.

    7) Watch the video below. Clearly this is an angry politician who has no clue about how damaging this idea is to this country. He makes an incredibly stupid assumption that American investors are Wall Street and that any tax will affect the very people that got screwed - Americans!

    8) Contact your Congressman or House of Representative. Write a letter explaining you are in investor and you want your rep to oppose this legislation.

    Most importantly if this bill is to repay the American citizen then:

    a) Why are American investors being asked to pay for this? A good deal of American citizens are American investors. They aren't Wall Street.

    b) Wall Street institutions are repaying back the TARP money so whats the point of this bill!
  2. Is it a tax on proceeds or on gains?

    Assume $10,000 from proceeds from the sale of a stock; gain is 0. What is the tax? $25 or 0?
  3. zdreg


  4. Thank goodness I trade few times.

    "Mr. Geithner now says that banks will repay $175 billion by the end of next year. To date, counting Bank of America’s promised payment, banks have repaid $116 billion"


    Institutions are paying back their TARP funds and there is no need for a traders tax under Defazio's initial premise.
  6. jksn922


    There is already a thread on this titled "1/4% Tax on all stock trades pushed in NY Times Today". It is now 598 pages long and counting. It has all the latest info.
  7. You obviously didn't read the original post to this thread.

    The point of this thread was to have everyone read the DeFazio bill in entirety, THEN post comments. There is so much misinformation going around with people following that thread who have not spent the time to read what the bill is all about.
  8. Lucrum


    And you think congress will let that stop them from shoving another tax up our ass?

    Oh sure they will.

    "Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said the Obama administration is opposed to the idea as is Wall Street's influential banks and investment houses"

    "The tax would not directly strike the average or small investor, DeFazio said. Tax-preferred retirement accounts such as IRAs and 401(k)s would be exempt as would the first $100,000 in trade."

    Now Defazio is seeing how stupid his bill is. So if you invest in 1,000 shares of Google at $550/share, $450,000 of that would be taxed at 0.25% ($1125).

    Its clear, Mr. Defazio and his cowriters were caught up in the politics of the matter back in February 2009.

    His bill attempts to recover all of the TARP funds but as I posted earlier, the institutions are paying back that TARP money over time.

    Clearly, Mr. Defazio just wants to put out a bill out there for his own political career and recognition. This is a slam against the current administration in that he has no confidence in the institutions repaying back the TARP.

    Stupidly, he and his cowriters never thought out the specifics of this bill and pulled it out of their ass to cater to the American public to spur their political careers. Their lack of understanding what effects this would have on an entire industry, let alone the American investor is just absolutely ridiculous.

    Exempting the first $100,000 of any trade is an insult to the American investor!
  10. You disgust me. Its attitudes like yours that make me shake my head. Here, an issue that affects you and fellow investors/traders directly and you don't want to do a damn thing about it except mock it.

    Lets put this in real terms. Try trading ES futures. ES is 1000. Cash value is 50 times = $50,000 per contract.

    You go buy 1 contract and your 0.25% tax is $125. You go sell that same contract at 1000 and you cough up another $125. You are already 5 ticks behind.


    Now do that on 5 ES contracts and you are 25 ticks in the hole.



    So you can sit there and run from thread to thread like you do offering no fucking value or go out and do whatever you can to not let this bill pass.

    Thats what it amounts to. Negative comments that do nothing are not wanted. We dont need traders/investors like you who have a "CANT DO" attitude. There are people out there this minute fighting this bill for you right to invest/trade.
    #10     Dec 7, 2009