Trader Guinea Pigs Needed!

Discussion in 'Trading' started by topherea, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. topherea


    Hey all

    As many of you may be familiar, in Jack Schwager's book, "Stock Market Wizards", Mr. Schwager actively was looking to interview the "Best" trader on Wall Street and was referred to Connecticut based Mr. Steve Cohen by several industry contacts. In the book while interviewing Mr. Cohen, Mr. Schwager questioned Cohen about having a psychiatrist on staff who "coached" his floor of traders to make them better, more profitable traders. At the end of the book, Mr. Schwager interviewed Steve Cohen's psychiatrist, Ari Kiev, who formerly developed his techniques while working with other extremely competitive individuals, olympic athletes. In this interview, Mr. Kiev said that he would get the trader to vocally say in front of all of his other fellow traders how well he was going to do for the year, actually getting them to push the bar to extreme levels. In an example used in the book one of his coached traders loudly said in front of his peers that he was going to make $100,000,000 that year, for which he achieved that number, plus more because deep down within him, he truly believed that he could.

    On this thread, here in Elite Trader I would like to put this theory to the test by inviting anyone and all to join in, and help to devise a form of this technique to be displayed here on a time basis conducive to each trader's trade style and timeframe. Seeing that not everyone is trading with similar amounts of money, nor do all styles produce the same percentages, this is not a contest against eachother, but rather a contest against ourselves.

    So, to start this off, I'm a position trader who generally holds positions one to four days. Last week I made 8.6% trading FUQI and STEC. This week coming up, I have positions that I'm eyeing, but it may be a week and a half before my next trades are complete, but I'm going to say that I will make 8%. EIGHT PERCENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WITHIN A WEEK AND A HALF FROM MONDAY 6-22

    So come aboard and have some fun here.

    ***Please keep in mind that this is all in fun and should not be a reason to force a trade.***

  2. In the book you mentioned they talked about actual profit figures (100M) I don't think this will work with percentages (8%) for reasons that you seem not to understand, sorry to say that.
  3. topherea


    Thank you for your reply. If you have something that I'm not seeing here, please explain it to me, or pm it, as I myself am trying to learn and grow. Or, as I mentioned above, contribute your ideas to make this something positive for all as I'm really just trying to have some fun and see if we can do something that may turn out for the good here. But I think I know what you are referring to. I am trying to create an adaptation to the theory. If you have a suggestion that would work better with what I'm at least attempting, please help. The reason why I am currently focused on 8% is because the trades I am watching I believe can produce a percentage range where 8% is near the high end of the trade, but this is my system as everyone has an individual method. My next set of trades may only have a range that goes as high as 5%. 8% may not even materialize as my stocks may not even do what I think, as we know, happens all the time. I am focusing on the short term because I don't think that giving an annual number would keep this thread going, but I could be wrong. What I'm trying to do is first and foremost, have some fun, and learn and grow, and mimicking something like this on a thread could be complicated and as I look, I am seeing some holes. So in doing something like this on a thread, I'm asking for some help from anyone who would like to contribute to developing a model that would work.

    All n all, just trying to push myself and others to be better. Anyway, I'm off to church and hope my thoughts weren't scattered!
  4. Trading profitably is all about having an edge.

    The term "edge" includes:

    (1) A way of timing entries and exits so that the resulting expectancy is a positive number of sufficient magnitude

    (2) Proper position sizing so that the risk of ruin is minimized

    (3) Proper capitalization so that an effective risk and money management method can be put to work

    (4) Discipline and emotional stability

    95% of traders lack one or more of the above. Most lack (3) and (4). Nobody will disclose his edge unless he is crazy. So forget about getitng information about (1) anywhere.

    As far as my comment, my experience says that it is easier to make 100M in the market - provided (1) to (4) above are met - than to make 8% on 10K. You want to know why? First make a guess...
  5. topherea


    "As far as my comment, my experience says that it is easier to make 100M in the market - provided (1) to (4) above are met - than to make 8% on 10K. You want to know why? First make a guess..."

    First off, thanks for the compliment here as it took me several years to be able to make 5-8% gains consistently and confidently.

    My guess is that your account is substantial in amount and your risk reward ratio is adjusted to what you are comfortable with. It works and works well for you.
  6. Perfectly said.
  7. Congratulations!

    From my calculations: if I assume only 50 work weeks in a year.

    a simple 8% a week will mean about 400% a year.

    a compounded 8% a week will mean about 4690% a year.

    If you compound this, and start off with only a moderate $10000 capital, you can make 1 billion dollars in only 3 years (oh... let's ignore income tax for the moment).

    Keep it up!
  8. topherea


    I know, I know... (ya smart arse!) and Steve Cohen was up around 200% year. I'm not saying that I don't have losing trades as it happens all the time, but I cut them quick. However my trades don't consist of 100% of my account. And I don't trade if I don't have a trade.

    Look the bottom line is that I think that I can make 8% on my trades over the next week and a half. Why is that so hard to believe? Maybe I'll get it maybe I wont.

    What will you be making? Let's hear your belief of what % you will make in the next week or 2.

    Please post it here so we can get this thread going.

    Talk about a whiny little wussy! C'mon! post your belief. Push yourself!
  9. Read the answers. It's not the 8%, it's what you risk to make it. If you are risking your life it ain't worth it dreamer...
  10. topherea


    basha, you wouldn't be afraid if you had a system that worked. I'm not afraid at all. What I do is like clockwork. I have a good system. This is not hard, it's actually boring. This is my profession. My enjoyment. I'm trying to get better by trying something that some great traders have recommended. It's funny how everyone has a reason why not to try something new. Simple answer...fear.

    Why are you deviating from the whole purpose of this thread other than you aren't to the level required to participate. Bashing on people only shows that you are insecure and it makes you feel better about yourself. Thank God for the freedom of the good 'ol United States and the freedoms I have to pursue anything I please to any level I choose to follow it.

    I'm going to give this thread one week to see if anyone seriously wants to try something someone proven has suggested. If not, oh well. who really cares anyway.

    #10     Jun 21, 2009