TradeGuider Thread

Discussion in 'Trading Software' started by hcour, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. hcour

    hcour Guest

    Well gee, this thread was closed for some reason today, just when I was about to comment. Hope I'm not violating any rules here. To anyone still interested:

    I'm a big fan of Tom Williams and Wyckoff. I tried the trial version of VSA a couple years back, as did other "Wykcoffians" that have been hanging out together and studying Wyckoff for several years. We never stuck w/the program, it simply didn't work, as we knew in our hearts it couldn't. Perhaps they've improved the software, in fact I'm sure they have and will continue to do so, but there is an inherent problem that they'll never be able to address: Wyckoff pv analysis is not mechanical and it never can be. W himself would find the very concept absurd. You can't code something that is, by its very nature, discretionary. There are simply too, too many subtleties.

    For example, in his original course, W does a very detailed analysis, practically bar-by-bar, of the NY Times 50 Index and later does the same thing w/a specific stock, Anaconda. This is a direct quote from Wyckoff's course, the man himself, regarding the meaning of the seemingly similar price behavior at a crucial point:

    "For instance, note that the action of Anaconda during and after the distribution around 16–18, in many respects, is similar to the action of the N.Y. Times average as discussed in Section 7, page 7 through the top of page 10. But, whereas the behavior of the index continued bearish after the decline to March 4, 1930, we now (June 26, 1934) see many symptoms in the behavior of Anaconda which tell us that, instead of preparing for a further decline, the stock more probably is being groomed for another advance."

    IOW, the pv action, though similar to Anaconda, meant something completely different than the pv action in the NY Times Index, when regarded in perspective of the entire phase that preceded it. One was distribution, one was accumulation. No software can analyze an entire accumulation/distribution phase, or re-accumulation/re-distribution phase. W always tells us to regard present action in relation to what's gone before it, how can software do that mechanically? It cannot. Can software tell us the cumulative and ever-shifting nature and meaning of the springs, shakeouts, upthrusts, signs of weakness/strength, tests and retests, that precede a true bo vs a false bo? In Wyckoff, everything is a result of preparation, there must be a Cause before there is an Effect. Software simply cannot mechanically analyze that Cause. W tells us over and over again: These are not Patterns, they are Principles. There's a big difference. Every chart is unique.

  2. Nothing new under the sun. As I have stated ad nauseum - rename,repackage,reprice(much higher) for new newbies impressed by marketing hype and computer generated eye candie.


    Thanks for the frank and truthful review on ET.
  3. I now understand your posture at last. You must not get agitated because, you, better than most individuals, should have it verified on a daily basis that the majority of the trading public do not pose any threat to your interest. There are very few indeed capable of penetrating the agenda you defend. So there is no need for you to respond the way you do. My posture remains one of impartiality and quiet contemplation, to which is now added the sentiment of wry amusement. This is not detrimental to you personally or otherwise, it is as a consequence of understanding your fears, which have no basis in reality.
  4. I fear only people like you CW, because you are the reality of a deranged person.
  5. The fine dividing line between sense and nonsense is very fine indeed. You disappiont me terribly because you are standing on the wrong side. I expected better from you. Sadly it is not the case. Very disheartening indeed, if one is to take you seriously. But, if you want me to frighten you silly I can if I want to as well. You are already frightened and I have not done anything to you as of yet.
  6. jeffgil


    this is like reading Shakespeare, King Lear dramatic.

    the TradeGuider live room is running on HotComm's relay6 under TradeGuiderRT and the password is RT...feel free to subscribe to a HotComm free trial or email for a temporary link. Seeing is believing. Talk is cheap.

    J Gil

    Futures trading involves risk of loss and should be considered carefully before trading.
  7. It may sound dramatic to you but it is not without foundation.
  8. T_Jensen


    For anyone that's interested- I used tradeguider and found it identical in performance to the previous version called VSA.
    The unfortunate fact is that most of the VSA signals appear about 2-3 bars after they occur.
    It looks great at the end of the day when you load a chart- but the signals are unuseable in real-time.
    I don't mean to say that the program is worthless- the diamond stop sytem is decent. I do agree with the original poster- that it's hard if not impossible to mechanize Wycoff's ideas.
  9. jeffgil


    T Jensen,

    Like alot of new traders looking at TradeGuider, I do not think you understand how to use the new software. It troubles TG when traders look at the VSA indicators and buy/sell, not knowing why the indicator was generated.

    Each indicator is a reflection of several signal types that may be validated by one single bar or several bars depending on the indicator. In some cases, the indicator will pop on the chart and tell you that based on the relative volume, the spread of the bar and the closing price this particular move could be identified, for example as a the supplementary comments, TG will explain "this is" what you need to watch out for....So in essence these indicators primarily function more as a "weather warning" or "supply/demand imbalance" warning....the resulting market moves will confirm or not confirm whether this "signal type" is valid...but you the trader are now looking at the present bars for confirmation.....

    Keep in mind, the VSA indicators are more useful for longer term trades and educational in nature than when only trading for maybe a few points. You need to understand and utilize the other indicators such as the "h" stops, diamond (short term) indicators and the color of the bars (intermediate term) to properly use TG to enter and exit trades according to your trading methodology and plan.

    Just relying on the VSA indicators w/o knowledge of why they are popping on the chart, is like seeing a tornado warning on your TV and barreling for the basement, despite the fact that the warning maybe 4 counties are watching for tornado warnings when you should probably only need to be watching for rain....

    Please feel free to give me a call or attend the live room to get a better handle of how to apply the other indicators and their consistencies to your trading and get a better handle of what you can gain from reading what's behind the VSA indicators....888-716-3589 or join the HotComm room on relay6 - TradeGuiderRT - password RT....


    J Gil

    Futures trading involves risk of loss
  10. T_Jensen


    Don't get me wrong- I actually do like the program, and especially the theory behind it.
    However, I saw something in the program that bothered me tremendously, and I think others should know about it.
    When I used the program in real time- let's say 3 minute bars, for one day- at the end of the day I would have maybe 5 or so VSA indications on my screen. Then if I closed the program, re-opened it, and loaded the same 3 min chart, I would have as many as 15-20 VSA indications on the chart.
    This tells me that the program works better in hindsight than in real-time. Useless to me for real-time trading.
    #10     Aug 26, 2004