just because you can't make money in HSI does not mean you need to get upset. Not everybody is skilled in this market; probably you aren't, therefore you should not be trading it. Thus you are a "non-HSI trader". If you want to be labelled "non-HSI trader", that's your business. Probably you aren't, at least not anymore.
And for those considering the hsi ... let me illustrate on a 1 tick chart (IB ticks). You should at least be aware of what you're trading not deceived Here's a sample of some modest and not quite so modest tick gaps today. The v number is the volume and the other number is the last 3 digits of the price. The biggest I spotted easily was a small 38 points (about usd210 per contract). HSI used to be a bit thin and prone to gaps --- but since august the market has been extreme. I didn't stop because I couldn't make money; I got pissed off with the way it kept gapping off my dom. So I decided to adapt my strategy to SPI, STW and SgxNK instead. And the next post is the sign of yet another short term ET'r who'll be gone in 18 months. Be careful out there, real traders <img src="http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1679922">
there is a method to every madness. what you have posted is noise to you, but signal to me. If you know how to read it, you can use it to your advantage. For me, I make money. For you, you get slaughtered. If you had asked me how to trade it, I would have shown you.
From what I see both of you have a point. ET99 is right in that if you look at, say, a 1 minute chart, the trend with its reactions is very, very clear. Almost textbook clear! I believe many TA students would find it easy to trade. Kiwi is also right regarding the gaps, which some may find hard to deal with. I think that the problem is that the pricing is set at 1 point each. Being a 5 digit index, it would seem that 10 point ticks, like the Nikkei, would be more suitable, and reduce the gapping.
No learner, I used to wonder about that (I have traded HSI for the last 3 years) but its not that. SPI for example is a 1 point index (and STW is 0.1 points) and both trade in an orderly manner. Also, HSI doesn't have substantially less daily volume than SPI or STW (obviously much less than the 3 nikkeis). I am told by someone who has spent more time in Asia than I that its also not "chinese gambler's" as has, somewhat racistly, been suggested here before. The behaviour of a contract is substantially affected by the order matching system that is used and apparently HSI's one is a little different. That may be why MHI is still not on the permitted list for US citizens. Until the changes in August normal gaps were modest and a 20 pt gap was the exception and, if experienced, likely to be associated with being wrong at yesterdays high. Normally you could fill a few contracts within a few points. The changes corresponded with the opening up of HK to some organisations within Mainland China. I am told that a bunch of well financed folk out of Shanghai took up trading the HSI at that point in practice for a new Chinese Futures contract. That group were big enough to make the existing locals lives difficult and the intraday volatility changed as a result. I don't know if that's 100% true but someone else who runs a trading organisation that participates in HSI in a big way told me initially that he'd seen it before and it would be back to normal in a couple of weeks ... and then a month and a half later "this is insanity." At that point I decided it would be more useful to try to adapt my strategy to the other main Asian indexes than to deal with prices that jumped right off my dom I must say that going from an environment where trades lasted a few minutes to one where they go for half an hour or more has been interesting after adapting to the old HSI. I keep an eye on it to see if it drops back into "dom wide" ranges.
Kiwi does not know how to trade, I am sorry to say, but he believes he does. A real trader never gets piss off at the market. You cannot change the market, you can only go with the flow. And the market dictates the flow. There is always a spread in bid and ask. But do not confuse it with slippage. If the b/a is wide, and you enter a market order to buy, you must understand that you are buying at ask. You get filled at ask, that's fair and square. You did not get robbed, you did not get slippage, you get what you requested. If you do not understand this, you will not accept it. My advice to you is to stop trading. Even ES has b/a wider than 1 tick. If you don't know that, you are dreaming. If you think a 2 tick spread in ES is ok, but HSI is not, then don't trade HSI. You don't know how to deal with it. If you compare the spread in YM, then ES's spread is wide like the grand canyon. Why don't I hear people cry faul? That's robbery, don't you think? I am not advocating anybody to enter a trade with market order. What I am illustrating is that this market is so good (or maybe I am so skillful?) that you can enter a trade with market order.
No need to call names and hit low. HSI must have done a number on you for you to get so piss off. Getting upset with me does not change me or how I trade HSI.