torturing democracy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Brandonf, Dec 31, 2008.

  1. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    Did anyone see the Torturing Democracy special on PBS last night? If you have not seen it I hope you do. I was shocked and sad that America has taken part in and authorized the things that have happened to the people in US custody during the war on terror. I'm not sure how much I would care if 100% of the people could be gaurantee'd to be guilty, but that simply is not possible. What we are doing is an embarresment. I never bought into the whole "We are just creating a new generation of terrrorists by our actions" line of thought until I saw this, and now I don't see how we could not be. If someone did something like this to a friend of mine, or a member of my family I would want to kill them and everyone associated with them. This is just totally counter productive stuff that they are doing using SERE tactics on prisoners. Anyway, I hope that those of you who have not seen it will take the time to do so. If you did see it comments and a reasonable discussion without name calling would be great. I'm sure there is a "other side" to why this might work, but I simply for the life of me can not see what it is.
  2. Lucrum


    Well...I guess anything is possible.
  3. fhl


    Anything done on PBS could be called "Torturing the Truth".
  4. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    I tend to agree and I normally don't watch it except for nightly business report (which I think is the best business news program out there). However, this particular documentry was very powerful, at least to me. I hope that Americans will take the time to watch it, research the issue (and not just from the point of view presented in the documentry...they obviously have a story they want to tell and an angle they want to tell it from). But, as American's this is being done, or has been done, on our behalf and in our name and I think we should all know at least what is going on. If you agree with it after having learned the facts then that's your business, and if you don't then that's your too. But I think you should know.
  5. If you don't support our boys and girl unconditionally when they put their lives on the line for your freedom unconditionally then you must be some sort of socialist. Hey those are A-rabs whether they did anything or not is beside the point. America is the most powerful country on Earth.
  6. and this how empires collapse. btw, most of them are NOT A-rabs. supporting the troops is not the problem. the problem is supporting a corrupt regime sending and indoctrinating society/soldiers into a false war that is designed to profit corporations and then expecting NO consequences for their terrorism...i mean liberation.

    power is in the eye of the beholder. The US founding fathers proved that to the almighty british empire for "liberating" the U.S.

    history repeats again and again. Super powers don't seem to learn and it's their citizens are the ones who bear the burden.

  7. Brandonf

    Brandonf ET Sponsor

    I don't understand this "false war" stuff. It seems pretty real to me. Was it a false bullet that hit my brother in the shoulder two years ago when he was in Afghanistan? False IED's that have killed so many of our soldiers?
    My objection is not to the war itself. I happen to be one of the (few) people who think's we should be fighting it. Not only fighting it, but taking out the stops and fighting to win. However, I think that the way we are going about treating our POWs is going to backfire badly. It is a totally uneffective means of getting information out of a person, and it throws away our core concept of humanity. The United States of America is not Spain during the Inquisition, and we have no right to behave as though we are. No President has the right to give orders that violate both American and International Laws (that have become American Laws because we agree'd to them in the first place).
    You won't find me in the radical camp calling for GWG, Chaney, Rumsfeld etc to be tried as war criminals...however if they happened to be put up for trial then I hope they are treated just like Lyndie England was, who right or wrong, was a young, scared, uneducated girl who was "simply following orders". Orders that came from the very highest level. Unfortunetly for her she did not have lawyers advising her every step of the way as she commited her crimes, nor did she have the full support and authority of the United States Government behind her.
  8. the war itself is real just ask any american soldiers, afghani/iraqi civilians and their relatives.

    it's just based on lies ie, al-qaeda, etc, osama bin laden, war on "terror".

    if you don't undertand then you have to start follown the money.

    keep in mind that the taliban , osama, saddam were best buddies with the U.S. they were trained and funded.

    they became bad guys when they stopped working for the U.S government.

    The U.S government couldn't care less about it's own people. This is about power. not liberation, freedom or patriotism. the war is based on false pretense.

    you have watched a video that has given you a paradigm shift. watch other stuff that goes against your views. you don't have to agree with views but try to UNDERSTAND the views.

    i understand why israelis support israel and republicans believe that there is a war on "terror" (when terror originated from the U.S.) however, i don't support their views and it has made me switch from being anti-american/israeli to be against U.S/Israeli foreign policy. Do you understand the difference bcos there is a huge difference.

    i'm no democrat/republican. they serve the same special interest groups instead of the people who voted them in.

    good luck with your quest for knowledge.

  9. oh btw, the "real" stuff don't seem to make it on the news. in fact, ask anyone who has a background international politics and business and they will tell you that the "main" news are often to distract you from the real news.

    in the past we used to worry about government controlling the media. what if the media (private corporations) decided to work with the government so both can benefit?

    the corporatocarcy is alive and more powerful than governments.

    again, do your own research, talk to people in places and reach your own conclusion.

    forget about what is right/left wing and follow the money.

    you may find the following link extremely useful or utterly useless. depends on how you think. either way, make a sincere attempt to understand the author's opinion. the real enemies of this world want humanity to be divided between those who can critically analyze without fear and those who follow blindly. the former are a threat and already referred to as self-haters/ traitors/terrorists, etc:

  10. You sound like a Dallas Cowboys fan.

    Look, you can certainly support the young men and women, hoping they don't get killed. I support that.

    I don't support them risking their lives for foreign interest, oil companies, neocons, etc.

    You can hate Jerry Jones, and hate T.O., and think Romo is a panzy when the pressure is on, and wish they would fire the coach...and still support the Cowboys.

    Sometimes support is wanting those you care about to have better leadership...and I never unconditionally support leadership, when they are acting as politicians and not revealing their true ambitions.

    #10     Jan 2, 2009