Torture?

Talking about different cultures, two things stand out about Arabs
compared with Westerners.

For example, to Easterners (like Chinese and Japanese and Indonesians) the concept of 'not losing face' is very important. Japanese for example wouldn't easily come out with a direct 'no'
but instead are inclined to say 'perhaps', or some other delaying response because they don't want to offend you.

Now, as far as Arabs are concerned, there are at least two characteristics which stand out and, because it goes against our grain, it makes it very hard for us to reach an understanding of other cultures like the Arabs because we continuously try to understand and explain their behaviour in our terms.

Firstly, it looks to me that telling lies doesn't appear to be the wrong thing to do.

That isn't to say that westerners don't tell lies. Of course, some do. However telling lies does carry a stigma here.

That stigma doesn't necessarily appear to be the case with Arabs.

Secondly, there is something else which is rather puzzling to me.

Take for example yesterday's bus attack in Israel. The Palestinian bomber has a note in his pocket stating his name and the town he comes from and it also gives a tirade against the US, praising El Quada for the 9/11 event.

Now I can understand that they have an intense dislike (thus the tirade), that part is easy to understand.

I can even understand the part of planting a bomb.

What I cannot understand is that, even though they are very much aware what the consequences are for their families (i.e. that their families' houses will be knocked down by the Israelies) they nevertheless still want to identify themselves DESPITE THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

I doubt that westerners would be announcing their names under the same set of circumstances.

So is there anyone who can explain such behaviour ??

freealways

 

That is spot on. I lived in Japan for several years and encountered that a LOT.

I'm just guessing here, but I believe it serves two purposes. First, the bombers consider themselves martyr-heroes; letting their names be known is their way of getting a lot of publicity (albeit posthumously) and perhaps they believe that their families are accorded respect as well. Secondly, their families get Saddam's $25,000 plus whatever else is donated to them for their "heroic" actions. Whether or not that money makes up for getting their homes bulldozed by the IDF is puzzling....maybe the money goes to building second homes ( I don't know if the IDF tracks and bulldozes the new home or not).

 

Arabs are <b>not</b> in the same category as other Asians.
They're far worse.

"Sirhan, a 35-year-old murderer, is cheerful and relaxed and happy to tell his story. He's especially proud to describe the efficiency with which he shot his young sister Suzanne in the head four times last March. "She came to the house at 8:15," he relates, "and by 8:20 she was dead." Three days before, the 16-year-old girl had reported to police that she had been raped. "She committed a mistake, even if it was against her will," says Sirhan. "Anyway, it's better to have one person die than to have the whole family die from shame."

"His is not a logic rare in the Arab world. For centuries, men of the region have engaged in "honor killing," the intrafamily slaughter of allegedly errant females. Women have endured the custom, while legal establishments have tolerated or even condoned it."

http://pnews.org/art/1art/HONORkillings.shtml

 

Yes, pretty bad isn't it ? (This must be the understatement of the century).

The questions which that article raises in one's mind are :

1. Are these people really immoral savages compared to us ?

2. Are our morals really an improvement on the morals elsewhere ?

3. Do we as outsiders have the right to intervene and teach them our morals ?

4. Is it fair and reasonable to push our way of thinking down someone else's throat ?

5. Do we as outsiders have the stomach to intervene and teach them our morals ?

6. How could one go about that task, such a gigantic task ?

7. There is so much work to be done, where would one start (if so) ?

freealways

 

I don't care if our enemies are motivated by religion, politics, or some perverse third-world mores. If the bastards attack us, they must die.

 

Tomorrow is International Womens Day.
Any suggestions as to how to solve the human rights abuses against women (as mentioned in the previous posts) effectively ?

Think about it.


BTW, let us assume that a women's organisation was started and it was agreed that if one of them got murdered the group as a whole would take revenge.

Let us just say the (secret) executive committee consisting of say twenty women, marched up to the killed woman's brother who was responsible for his sister's murder, got hold of him, threw him onto the ground and put ropes on his legs and arms and thence, with five women on each of the four ropes, pulled the man into five pieces.

In the Middle Ages that was called 'quartering' and was done with the help of four horses.

Setting aside the consequences of a woman joining such an organisation were it known, would such drastic action possibly be able to change the population's outlook and behaviour ?

Personally I don't think it would but .................. let us have the opinions of people who either come from such areas or who may have lived there and are acquainted with the people's ways and thinking.

freealways

 

Good post, also similar sentiments with Bungrider, ElCabano, Madison, etc.., I voted No, but apparently two suspects died under torture treatments so far:

....American military officials acknowledged yesterday that two prisoners captured in Afghanistan in December had been killed while under interrogation at Bagram air base north of Kabul – reviving concerns that the US is resorting to torture in its treatment of Taliban fighters and suspected al-Qa'ida operatives.

The men's death certificates, made public earlier this week, showed that one captive, known only as Dilawar, 22, from the Khost region, died from "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease" while another captive, Mullah Habibullah, 30, suffered from blood clot in the lung that was exacerbated by a "blunt force injury"...

While the US claims this still constitutes "humane" treatment, human rights groups including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced it as torture as defined by international treaty...

Full article http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=384604

As max401 and others indicated, outside US not the same rights are extended to non US citizens. But where do we draw the line? Are we going way too far?

I just hope cool heads prevail...


Josh

 

>>I just hope cool heads prevail...<<

Yes, the hotheads can do whatever comes into their mind and you want us to speak nicely to them and pussyfoot and hope they feel inclined to give us the answers we are looking for ??

If the one and only way to get information out of them is to roughen them up you are saying we shouldn't ?
This is a war, a WAR !!!

There is a saying : Soft doctors make stinking wounds. What do you think it means ?

freealways