Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by OPTIONAL777, Mar 2, 2003.

  1. Now that the United State has captured Khalid Shaikh Mohammed in Pakistan, should they employ any method of gaining information that could help the war on terrorism?

    Is torture to gain information that could save future live of Americans justified in this instance?
  2. rs7


    I say YES!

    Not the expected response from me, since I have been so clearly and often labeled here as a "left wing liberal asshole" and such.

    And while I do think torture is "cruel and unusual punishment", under certain circumstances, I think extracting information that could save American lives should be done in any way that is effective. Torture? .... I have no moral problem with it given appropriate conditions. Like many I have given this matter it a lot of thought since 9/11 as opposed to virtually none prior to that tragic day.

    And if we ever got our hands on UBL, I would like to see him kept on life support so he could be made to suffer every day for a very long time.

    Hungry Osama? How does your left thumb well done (a little charred around the finger nail) sound today? or perhaps you would prefer it Tar Tar? A little teriyaki sauce to spice it up? Yeah, you'd like that? Ohhhhh, too bad...we just ran out! How 'bout some of your feces as a spice instead?

    How about a fried earlobe with a small spread of your grated genitalia paste sound? Which ear should we take? Your choice. Here, substitutions are welcome on the menu.

    OK..getting a little Steven King here. And it's all fantasy derived from the extreme anger I (and I guess most of us) feel going back to the events of 9/11. Of course we aren't barbarians. So we won't do this.

    Maybe we should just send them to their native countries and let them deal with the barbaric "justice " of wherever they came from to inflict terror on us here. Maybe we are just too civilized to meet out the kind of punishment these monsters need.

    But make 'em tell us what we need to know, and don't keep them in our prisons with the rights of our general prison population. Regularly fed, given a toilet, cot, blanket, books? Hell, probably their idea of the waiting room to Paradise. Subject them to their own levels of depravity. Otherwise, we have no way of even actually punishing them. Making their lives better is not punishment. (coming from filthy remote caves to air conditioned and heated prisons). And for these guys, we are not sending them to prisons to be "rehabilitated". We don't want them in what we call "correctional facilities" Change the laws for foreign nationals involved in terrorism maybe. (If that is not what we have already done in essence at Gitmo). We ARE at war with terrorism. POW's never had the same rights as regular felons.

    Whatever; just make 'em talk and make them suffer punishment for their crimes. At their own levels of depravity.

    See: not all "liberals" are "bleeding heart". Just 'cause I don't belive in school vouchers, and do believe affirmative action has accomplished some good (not always..but no plan is perfect). Doesn't mean I need to feel "soft on crime". This is just one of those generalizations that seems so silly to me. Just like saying all Conservatives are automatically Republican's and are Pro Life. And all liberals are Dems and Pro Choice. It really just isn't so.

    Politics aren't that clear and simple. That black and white. Unless of course you get all your information and the express your opinions by parroting the media pundits. Who, as Max's shrink pointed out, are in the entertainment business. And no matter what they themselves really think, they will say what is consistent with their audiences expectations. These "informed" listeners to me are like "informed" fans of whoever their favorite WWF wrestlers are. Yeah, right, informed! Listening to the same BS day in and day out, they are the more well informed group? Ha!!! The news junkies who keep posted on current world affairs by listening to Bill O' Reilly (who I like as an entertainer, and whose opinions I sometimes agree with and sometimes don't....what worries me is those that blindly agree with every word). How about "brainwashed" as the right word to replace "informed".

    (now that I think about it, it would be fun to know what percentage of pro-wresting fans are Republicans vs. Democrats).

  3. I voted "no," but, if I believed that what most of us mean by "torture" was the most effective way to get KSM to reveal useful information, then I might consider it a closer call. Also, if we had knowledge of an imminent attack, and believed that KSM or anyone else had critical information, then, whether we should or shouldn't, we probably would attempt extreme physical pressure. It might not work, however. There is a widespread belief that "everyone breaks, sooner or later," but we might not have until "later," and it's possible that an attempt to make things happen "sooner" would kill the victim or otherwise render him useless.

    Presuming that we have more than a few hours or days to make use of him, there are many techniques available to interrogators that fall far short of conventional sadistic fantasies, but that are probably at least as effective as physical torture, and potentially much more so, especially from the perspective of eventually acquiring some substantal portion of the huge amount of intelligence that KSM may be able to provide.
  4. Babak


    If by torture you mean make them listen to Puff Daddy all day and night....then I'm all for it.

    If they don't break with the P Diddyness himself I would then maybe consider moving on to Mariah Carey (but only after consulting with the Charter).

    By whatever means necessary, we need to find out what this guy has planned to kill more Americans.

    Good grief, he oughta be tortured for what he's done so far let alone what he's planned.

    This animal threw out whatever human rights he had coming to him a long time ago.

    I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would vote "no" on this.
  6. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

    -Jesus (the Christian one)
  7. This guy doesn't look too happy.


  8. Isn't that Mr. Market, the guy who loves meats and cheeses?
  9. Use of hypnotics, i.e. sodium amytal, sodium thiopental, scopolamine, etc., is not torture (in my book). However, if that doesn't work...
  10. that this poll is close. Who wouldn't say "yes" to torture, except a very ignorant person.

    I say rip the finger nail slowly off each of his fingers, until he tells us where osama is. Then burn his nuts just enough for him to tell you everything else he knows.


    ps picture does look eerily like mr market !!
    #10     Mar 2, 2003