Thanks for mentioning the forum. I saw the link through another thread many years ago, although I hadn't viewed any of its content. After a review of just the first 5 pages (yes, it's a long thread and I can't read all of it right now), my take thus far is as follows: The forum has members viciously attacking the Savius model when the owner began to solicit opinions in December 2014. The "consensus of opinion" from what I've read doesn't coincide with logic or fact. For example: 1. Many of the posters seem clueless on what it takes to run a successful business, especially when it comes to start up costs, fixed costs and variable monthly costs. 2. Some obviously DO NOT UNDERSTAND the term "opportunity cost" which really shows complete ignorance and lack of understanding of simple economic principles. I would guess that most traders who frequent these types of boards have attended at least some college, however after reading those posts, it seems as if I'm clearly mistaken, lol. 3. The owner of Savius provides articulate posts regarding their business model, including posting the actual numbers of his start up success rates, P&L stats, how he's open to changing/reviewing/modifying the model, yet the forum members begin to lambast not only him but also Top Step as being "scammers" when no such evidence of either firm being a "scammer" exists. It's a good thread, and I think it's worthy of review. It provides lots of information on how the business works, even if you have to read through the nonsense. You can see for yourself and make up your own minds. http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...-prop-firm-looking-traders-your-comments.html
Not sure if it's still an open thread. I posted it above, but you responded before I added the link, lol! Here it is again. Enjoy! http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...-prop-firm-looking-traders-your-comments.html
Volente questioned "the numbers" regarding profitable traders (at TST). Check out what the owner of Savius wrote from the trade2win thread, and take it for what's it worth... ..."That being said we were expecting that only 5% of candidates would have passed the test, while actually after a few months of stats 26% of the sample made it to live trading. Out of the live traders sample only 40% actually touched positive territory . The other 60% only went down and lost the whole allocated risk sometimes without even making a single positive trade. Only 10 % of the live traders were actually positive enough for both of us to be profitable. Surely we have been very generous in our test and live management , but still that does not change the meaning of the results: basically only 2% of the overall sample were actually “positive” traders." The owner goes on to say the following: "These are the numbers we have and I can prove it. So we sell 100 tests at 200 , but cash only 14800 as 26 traders passed the challenge and go live. Of those 26 , 60% or 16 will simply lose all their risk straight away so 16 * 1500 = 24,000 USD. At this point I m negative territory already without considering all the other related costs (salaries, office, softwares, etc). I need those 10 traders left to perform well enough and for long enough to give a chance to recover." TST just announced they funded their 150th trader so far in 2016. Anyone can debate fee structure, but then one must also consider the risk factor of absorbing the losses of the live traders. The $1,500 max loss draw at Savius is very similar to the $1,500 max loss of the live traders who passed the 30k combine and FTP. It all goes back to what has been discussed extensively here and elsewhere. Unless you're able to monetize lot size, which requires EQUITY, these accounts are NOT designed for long term profitability, but rather as a training tool. At least Savius was willing to debate the hard facts. I think the following statement he posted is definitely one that many can agree upon: "Even if you are a beginner who decides to take the Challenge or the Combine with Topstep and you don’t manage to pass, still you have probably learned a lot more and saved more money than trading by yourself."
I looked up the word Savius in my Latin dictionary. It literally means: 3 Italians who should be making pizzas, trying to run a TST copycat business. They already failed at running a Prop shop and I don't think this endeavor will end up much better. But Joe's post quotes nicely underlines just how hard it is to find talent and without the extra courses, mentoring etc. it might not be a profitable business model. Although there might be a seldom mentioned feature that could bring in the moola... In the above picture, one cub is TST the other one is Savius. This weekend's lollypop question is, which one is which and why? I have really nice lollipops for the correct answer...
The top cub "Savius" is perched precariously & thinking. "F*k mum, it's a long way down" The bottom cub "TST" is safe & alert with feet planted firmly on the ground.
Well, according to one of the owners, they were in process of opening up an office in Monaco, either as a fund or family office. If you search the profile of the owners, these guys actually trade for a living and had the balls to enter a risky endeavor. It's speculation to claim they "failed at running a prop shop" simply because earlier versions of the business model resulted in less than stellar performance metrics. Regarding pizza, sure, I'll take a slice, ciao!