OK, had a change of heart. It took me all of 5 seconds to find this. Honestly dude, this is why I advocate going to college on this board so much. Running a search should not be difficult. Anyway...here is a quote from 7 months ago laid out in detail. And no, I don't expect an apology from you. That would require character. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3860360&highlight=fund#post3860360 Old Aug 19th, 2013, 10:48 PM #309 Maverick74 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 19,010 Quote: Quote from volente_00: Perhaps you should keep better company. Is bob only doing directional swing trades in Es these days? I personally know 5 traders in Texas alone who day trade eminis profitable. The shortest one has 2 years of profitability and longest is 9 years. I only know 4 other profitable intraday traders outside of them. Only one of the others is in Chicago. So you are finally admitting the combine is a pipe dream and the real profits come subscriptions and not profitable traders? Bob Bright holds fucking trades in his face for 6 months on end. Are you REALLY going to cite him as your example for a intra-day futures trader? Good Lord. Dude, listen to me for a second. I have debated TST for God knows how long on this board. I have articulated my arguments both for and against in exact detail. I defended the charges against them that they were a fraud. NEVER did I EVER believe the pikers on this board were going to get funded through their own profitable trading. I stated that for the record GOD knows how many times. In fact, I took that a step further and laid out the argument that the combine was THE best thing for the avg ET piker. Because for $150 bucks, they could see how TOUGH this business was and why they would better off taking that 9-5 marketing job vs blowing 50k in savings like I saw many guys do at my firm just to give it the old "college try" and see what happens. TST is a godsend for most people here. Because it reveals the "truth" about your place in this business. I NEVER made the argument that guys were going to be profitable traders from this site. I said that over and over and over again. Instead, I defended the veracity of the company. Their model is legit. Their model serves a purpose. I also went on to specifically lay out an ideal goal for most guys who are doing the combine. And that is to trade the combine as many times as it takes to qualify and once they do qualify, to defer the acceptance of capital and open up your own account and trade your own money. The TST combine will force discipline, discipline that 99.9% of the guys on this site DO NOT HAVE as has been evidenced by ALL the combines you have seen here. It makes no sense for guys to fund 10k, 25k or 50k account at Advantage Futures to work on their discipline losing 100% of their stake. Instead, focus on improving your discipline in the combine and then trade on your own. THAT is what most these guys should do. Of course the irony of this all, is that the discipline is so bad here, that even the bad trader who can't fucking pass a combine, they don't even have the discipline to stop trying. They are like the 5 year old child picking up the hot pan on the stove over and over and over again burning their hands thinking next time the handle won't be hot. That is what we are dealing with here. Even Austin, a guy who has at least attempted to trade the last 10 to 15 years cannot even demonstrate discipline. It's a joke. But that has nothing to do with TST. Just as all the guys who blow out their IB accounts can't blame IB for their failures. Or all these losers trading FX that blame Oanda for gunning for their stops. Obviously it's NEVER their fault they lost money, it's always the broker. It's always the Fed. It's always the HFT guys. It's NEVER them. They will NEVER take personal responsibility for their actions EVER! That is the hallmark of a loser. That guy/gal has ZERO chance of ever seeing profitability. Hopefully I made this a little more clear for you. I tried to explain it like I was talking to a 5 year old because I might just very well be.
I didn't think you would find anything so I did it for you. In this thread you are quoted: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=276377&highlight=austin&page=9 " And for the record, TST is not claiming to "teach" anyone how to trade. They are supplying the field. You are the one that has to come and play" So Mav, is it really about the training? It seems to me that training and teaching are pretty much the same thing!!
Right, however the main question as I posted earlier is whether or not the additional parameters are going to make it prohibitive to take a check. That is the true "litmus test" regarding the TST opportunity, not the combine itself.
That is correct. They offer no methodology. The provide the field and the ball and you have to play the sport. They did venture into coaching which I stated on several threads was bullshit on their part. Huge mistake. Coaching in trading is absolutely worthless. But that's all touchy feely crap that is suppose to raise a traders self confidence. That is not teaching a method. TST has no method, never did, never will.
I think austinp nailed it. There should NOT be two sets of rules, period. Otherwise, a trader doing the combine will get the false sense of security that he/she can trade in the same manner with a live account, even if they met the parameters of a combine. And yes, things CAN be automated. In fact, the day I reached my daily loss limit, I was "auto-stopped" by a risk manager. I was not aware they had this feature, however it does state in their rules that you can get triggered out anytime a max loss is reached. The day I hit the daily loss limit was one of those days when ES came roaring back, however I was stopped out before the trade worked in my favor. I think one of the key elements of trading is not only the amount of the draw, but also how a trader manages the draw. Since there ARE two sets of rules (one for the combine/live prep, and another for the live account), I think the key is to read ALL of the rules and understand all of the nuances between the personal stop, auto max intraday stop and trailing max drawdown before doing the combine. Regarding the feature of an "auto flat" 1 min before the close, I would not be against such a feature, however I don't feel that is necessary, since a trader who is in the market daily should be aware of the times of when their products are traded, and thus can close out their positions themselves.
Currently, there are "additional rules" that a trader has to follow if they go live as a Junior Trader and before the get to Senior Trader. As I mentioned, they are as follows: 1. Predetermine the share size for the first entry. 2. Can't add to a losing position . 3. Can't add to a winner unless the P&L is greater than $500 for 30k/50k accounts, and $1,000 for the 100k/150k accounts. If you are going to do a combine, then you might as well follow the above rules DURING the combine, since you'll have to follow those rules in the live account.
I think that's a reasonable argument. The rules are quite clear on the site. Once the trader and backer agree to the rules, then they should not be changed, unless it's in the trader's favor. The op said the trades were being "micromanaged" however the trader did not want to elaborate. The point of being a backer is to take RISK of a draw. Otherwise, the model is flawed and becomes no different than a deposit shop that makes you risk your own capital.
The only problem is they are not transparent about the second set of rules. That's a big issue to me when you lead someone on about your end of the bargain and change the rules once they fulfill their end. Why would you not require the same rules on the combine that is required for the live account ? It makes zero sense at all if your true intent is to find traders to back and not just pocket combine revenue from dreamers.
By the way this rule can be easily bypassed. (anyone noticed I just love rules??) If you close the losing trade then immediately reopen with double the size, you basicly added to the same position, but bypassed the rule... Now if they force you to open trades always with the same size, it doesn't work, but they should let traders choose their own position sizing. We have different strategies, a lower probability strategy needs a smaller position,etc.etc.... So the new rule is that you always have to start with the same size? --------------------------------------- Maybe because (unknowingly of course) you were trading 50 cars not 5...