TopstepTrader Q & A

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by Topstep, Jan 4, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ghappy21

    Ghappy21

    If a funded trader builds up some retained profit buffer then that greatly lessens the risk for TopStep but TopStep still get the 20%. My point is TopStep (or SpeedUpTrader) have far more to gain from profitable traders than from failing traders. They want you winning.

    I agree that some of these funded trader organizations are designed to profit from failure, and from stretching out that failure as long as possible. Caution is required. Understand the model, and your "cost" to be successful.
     
    #421     Apr 14, 2021
    traderjo likes this.
  2. Topstep

    Topstep

    Hi @traderjo - We do not try to make sure most traders fail. We are guided by our mission - to provide a safe place for traders to professionalize their passion. We provide an abundance of free resources and offer coaching to help traders hone their risk management and succeed.
     
    #422     Apr 15, 2021
    SelfMadeDude likes this.
  3. Overnight

    Overnight

    Then limit them to 1 contract on every account size and allow overnight holds. No scaling up. You guys will make so much money it would blow your minds, because you would have profitable traders. ONE CONTRACT.
     
    #423     Apr 15, 2021
  4. traderjo

    traderjo

    I am only responding because TST replied other wise to hell with all this as I have been abused for raising a perfectly legit met question that any consumer is entitled to raise ..
    SO Mr TST
    I did not say that TST makes trader's fail...all I was asking was as per your own admission your main revenue comes from test fees rather than trader profits...! which is what the real Props do .. so I wondered of TST claims themselves a real Prop firm? any way 10/10 for at least disclosing that your company makes money from tests rather than the 20% trader profit share !:sneaky:
     
    #424     Apr 16, 2021
  5. Many many congratulations! Keep sharing your experience with us.
     
    #425     Apr 27, 2021
    Topstep likes this.
  6. oxhimang

    oxhimang

    Many many congratulations on passing your trading combine. I also have plans of doing that in the near future.
     
    #426     May 26, 2021
    Topstep likes this.
  7. ZTrader888

    ZTrader888

    How does this new "20 second" rule work? At what point does a person fail - during the trial period or when he reaches the profit target? For example, if on any given day, your trades average 18 seconds, you're out? Or when you reach you profit target and all your trades average less than 20 second (i.e. 18, 19 seconds), you fail? Good scalpers can be in a trade 5-6 seconds and be profitable. I read your rationale based on statistics, but aren't you excluding some really good traders? Doesn't seem fair.
     
    #427     Jun 18, 2021
  8. Topstep

    Topstep

    Hi @ZTrader888,

    Here are the details of the Winning Trade Duration. It is true that the majority of your winning trades must be held for 20 seconds or more. This is behavior we want those trading our money to develop when in the SIM environment. The target is not required in the Live Funded account. If you have any other questions, please reach out to support@topstep.com.

    Thanks!
     
    #428     Jun 28, 2021
  9. Greetings. I've been meaning to post my thoughts for a few months. I've waited until I'm fully funded with a 150K account to share my thoughts and. (My current status is funded. In the overnight session between Wed/Thurs I had my first fight with stupidity. I was trying to get long NQ x 3 and I cut myself up bottom picking the ONH. Survived it. The acct is currently -$500. So, I think I'm more than qualified to share my thoughts/experience.)
    1. Topstep is legit. The account is real. The customer service is extremely good. For me, it has been exclusively email driven. The CS is thorough and timely.
    2. Michael Patak has an extremely smart business mode. Does Topstep generate income from combine fees and data subscriptions? Yes. I believe the fees are entirely fair. During the combine step, the platform and customer service are 100% available. It costs Topstep money to create, maintain, promote, and employ the folks making Topstep available to people like me. I'm confident that no-one can successfully debate the concept that: "The cost of doing business is not the cost of doing business." At what point does someone trying to become a full time trader not understand it is "risk management?" That includes risk management of their funds. When starting the funded account level, the company can, and will, lose money on some of the funded traders. For a "150K" account, Patak accepts he may lose a total of $4500 per trader. This "total loss risk" is offset at the beginning by "trailing maximum drawdown" (TMD) following the profits and charging data subscriptions. The data subscription @ about $100 per month is nothing- both for the trader and the company. For a decent NQ scalper- $100 is about 30 seconds, if that. 5 points? Done. "Thanks Michael. It's a deal." As far as the TMD is concerned: Decreasing the maximum total loss, of the firms money, should be eliminated as soon as possible. As a funded trader, I want ALL risk to the firm eliminated and will come back to this below). Again, How can Patak actively manage his risk? As soon as the TMD reaches zero it stops going up. How is this unfair to anyone?
    3. Jumping straight to taxes. This is, perhaps, the most widely commented on subject with overwhelmingly negative ideas being forwarded. ((I'm tempted to keep the tax advantage of TS to myself, because I havent seen anyone get it right))
    Again, how does Patak manage his risk and profit? One of the tools is a '1099, consultancy agreement.' Assuming a trader reaches a TMD of zero and will begin to take profits: The firm takes 20% after the the first 5K. Traders pay taxes on withdrawn profits at the 1099 level. Calling more attention to the tax benefit TS/Patak gives traders: Taxes are only paid on the withdraw of profits. Think about that. Where I'm a bit confused is how TS/Patak deals with trader's profits as part of the company's taxes. Is it possible for both TS and the trader to defer paying taxes on the gains? I don't know. What I do know, is I don't pay taxes until withdraw of profits. If you are reading this and don't get the importance of not being taxed on the profits, I'm not sure how to help. So where is the downside of letting profits ride and now cashing in? Simply, if TS has a mistake in risk management and the firm blows up, the account and profits blow up too. Funding is a sub-account within the larger account. The tax advantage comes with a risk. This is exactly why I appreciate anything/everything TS/Patak do to minimize risk to the firm. Any further insite on the tax issue is greatly appreciated.
    4. PRO vs Funded account: Devil is in the details. I missed it when deciding to go directly to the funded account. Any withdraw prior to the MTD reaching zero, moves the MTD to zero. If I knew that at the time, I would have gone 100% with the Pro Account. The downside risk is back to Step 2, no data fees, trading holiday hours (not crazy about this one, but is still an option in the Pro. When MTD reaches zero in the Pro Level, It is converted to the Funded level. There really is no downside to the Pro level, only up.
    5. Does Topstep want someone to fail? From everything I can see, not at all. I think what the really want is to have traders who reach the zero risk level ASAP. They show this in offering the Pro level. TS recommends this as a lower cost, less risk option. Take the deal. Start the funded level at $4500. That has to be reached either way. This is also demonstrated by making the scaling plan (additional contracts) something one has to request. The Tradovate platform will prevent violating the max lots. It doesn't automatically increase the lot size. Both are very helpful to keeping traders from blow out.
    6. Who benefits from TS? Anyone who wants to trade. Formal rules force any trader to consider the downside prior to taking a position and if not prior, very shortly after. For undisciplined traders (I can be at times) these rules are not punitive. They are essential and supportive for long term success. An account with black and white, gone if violated, rules creates more discipline than a personal account can possibly have. Those who can't evolve with the rules, wont be around very long.
    7. A couple ideas on strategy/trading plan: The biggest problem will always be trading from below, getting behind on a trade, and trading more to get it back. If one finds themselves thinking 'have to get it back,' the battle is over, at least for that day. The only way to succeed with the TS rules is to press on a lead. Either let it ride or scale in, while up, and risk only the days profit. Stop at zero. Mentally, this is very difficult and kind of opposite of the "runner' strategy. The TS rules can only hurt someone trading already down. 3K daily and 3K weekly loss limits never go away. Embrace it. Never risk MORE when BEHIND. The account will never blow up doing this. This strategy might be a waist of time and mental/emotional capital, but the account wont suffer. If up, set a daily stop on profits. $100, $200, whatever it might be, set the minimum and live with it. Do not, ever, pile into a trade when down. Stop, get away, do something else, I really don't know what it is, but stop trading. This is nearly impossible for me. Like I said at the beginning: I had my first fight with stupidity. Taking bigger positions when down will destroy the account. For the best risk management, start with Micros, build a lead, and only bet profits for the day. Most TS funded traders wont do this. Using micros takes too long and is too difficult to scale into a trade. Most traders will be frustrated and bored trying this. Yeah, it is a frustrating and boring trading strategy, but, it is nearly impossible to blow out using this strategy. Take the necessary time and use 'micro risk management' to build the account. Reach the necessary levels (MTD at zero) prior to trading more risk and mini contracts. What I tell myself: "build a lead. Bet only the lead."

    There is a ton more to write and expound on (one would be $150K isn't really 150K), but this has served my purpose, which is: I have a serious itch to short NQ up at the 14,700 level coming off the recent, continuous closes at all time highs. Rather than scratching the itch with a short position in MNQ/NQ/MES/ES, I typed this. Shorting NQ/ES overnight has not been smart. It might work, occasionally as a scalp/quick profit trade, but history disagrees with trying it. Shorting the ONH, in front of the European open mostly fails. The trading the first night of the week, for me, is rooted in pent up energy from a few days without seeing what it is doing. Limiting risk by using micros on the first night back may be 1/10 of a mistake, but it is still a mistake.

    Maybe this will help shine light on TS. I'm happy to answer any questions if I can. Mr. Patak, I'm available to be employed as a coach, question/answer resource, social media presence, and influencer. I really do like my experience with Topstep and understand what a great opportunity Topstep is.

    PS: I didn't proof read, organize my thoughts, and intend for this to be a written masterpiece. Please excuse typos, grammatical errors, and jumping around in thought.
     
    #429     Jul 5, 2021
    andydandy likes this.
  10. Overnight

    Overnight

    One word my boy...ΒΆ

    kthanxbye
     
    #430     Jul 5, 2021
    andydandy likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.