lets look at the facts shall we so called 30K funded account mean only be able to trade 2 ES ? correct so why is it called 30K is beyond imagination? Normal day trading margin for ES is $500 so by definition this co called 30K account should allow one to trade 60 ES contracts or atleast 6 if overnight Forget 60 ES, just to trade 2 ES all one needs is own a/c with $1000 and for that privilege (assuming you pass the combines within the first month of payment) you have already paid non refundable "Test " fees which in some cases could be such that teh margin money is actually your own money! My point again is true and reputable props - dont take money from you to get selected. - Have inhouse training - select you on either your academic record or your past trading exp This is business of selling a pipe dream and collect "Test fees" not illegal or fraudulent per say but highly questionable. look I do understand that there should be an avenue to those who do not have such education to get funded but in that business model if the ethics is bit fishy then people are going to ask a question or two I mean there are legit "First loss" based funding models where things are crystal clear no BS about get funded for free! etc By the way has anybody wondered why this business model is based on Futures and hardly on Stock! Because if this has to be done on Stock the so called "Prop" firm will have to put up lot more money as compared to leveraged futures Also with futures dont seems to need any Exams so even easier to sell a pipe dream as far as your tantrum about "I know do not want to be part of trading forums. " your choice,.... many experienced traders here can see the "snake oil sales" and call it out and people who have been soled a dream dont then like it! NO wonder
"I'm not Topstep employee or representative but I think I can give you guys some idea how it works. First of all - if you go with TST there are 4 brokers (with whom they cooperate) - Tradovate, NTB (Ninja), Stage5, Cunningham. You can easily check margins at this companies. For ES (day/full): 500/6380 (Tradovate, NTB, Stage5). So let's look at 50k combine: 5 (max lot) x 6380 = 31 900, + 2000 (max drawdown) = 33 900. Of course you can say you would use 500 day margin (but you need to know what is considering as "day"), than it would be 5 x 500 = 2500, + 2000 = 4500. But the question is - do you really want to trade up to 5 lots with your own 4500 account (that's a bit "brave" idea) ? I think we should forget about combine names, day/full margins and take a look at this from the other side. You pay 165/mo for "50 k combine". You can passed both combine and LTP after one month (then you subscription is cancelled). You need also pay for data (as pro), so for CME 85/mo. 165+85 = 250$. So you pay 250$ for 2000$ (max drawdown and you don't need your money to cover at least 4500). For 100k combine it's 325$+85=410$ for 3000$, for 150k combine it's 375$+85=460$ for 4500$. So you can calculate that for every 1$ you spent you get: 5,71$, 7,32$ or 9,78$. No matter how you looked at this - it's good deal. And if you don't want to split with anyone - that's still fine - you can take your 5k (no split) and go do your business (if you made it). Of course it is good deal if you are not one of guys who are paying month after month after month after month ... But still if you want to have some strict rules, be a part of something and you want to spend your money on it - you can pay month after month as long as you want - just your choice. From my perspective there are more pros thank cons - and the most important one (pure economic factor) speaks for the Topstep." ""And I think with information I gave".. sorry but that is sketchy if you are so much in to it why dont you show the maths showing how exactly it is better than having own a/c with discount broker" - but I already did it. ? I gave you all information you need + calculation. And I did it objectively. "For ES (day/full): 500/6380 (Tradovate, NTB, Stage5). So let's look at 50k combine: 5 (max lot) x 6380 = 31 900, + 2000 (max drawdown) = 33 900. Of course you can say you would use 500 day margin (but you need to know what is considering as "day"), than it would be 5 x 500 = 2500, + 2000 = 4500" "You pay 165/mo for "50 k combine". You can passed both combine and LTP after one month (then you subscription is cancelled). You need also pay for data (as pro), so for CME 85/mo. 165+85 = 250$. So you pay 250$ for 2000$ (max drawdown and you don't need your money to cover at least 4500). For 100k combine it's 325$+85=410$ for 3000$, for 150k combine it's 375$+85=460$ for 4500$. So you can calculate that for every 1$ you spent you get: 8$; 7,32$ or 9,78$." It's pure math. If you want to start with e.g. 3000$ max drawdown and covered (even intraday margin) for your contracts you can do it spending 460$ with TST (if you can trade and make it in less than 7 months, which is not a big problem). If you don't want to split profit there is 5000$ withdrawal without split. You can choose platform that is free, so you just need to cover data (85/market as a pro - but it is included in my calculation). "A true Prop does not charge people" - sorry but this is completely untrue. In prop you pay desk fee (platform, data, squawk, space, hardware). And it can go to really serious amounts (1000$-2000$/mo). You don't pay it straight - it's subtracted from your account before the split. And about split - 80/20 from the beginning it's good split. "and remember we are not talking about ivy league prop but a small one." - I'm talking about serious props." "Guys, Do you read posts or just have your opinion and don't want to see anything else ? :/ @traderjo I'm not xEla but I will give you answers. 1. I have already give you information and calculation... Pure math - it is better for start, not for staying very long if you are profitable (and if you cant't get personal risk adjusments - whioch is btw possible) 2. It's business - no one tells you to take part in it. It's obvious that business is about 2 things - combines and funded traders. But there is nothing gray in this part with funded traders. I passed 150k combine in 5 days, Live Prep in 10 ... so it is possible to make it in less than 1 month... no never ending loop as you call it. There was no problems with funded account - I have it now and it is real account (not sim). It is easy to spot this if you ever trader real. So maybe the problem is - if people just can't trade they shouldn't spend mony for TST ?? It is that simply. They give you really easy information - you think you can trade ? ok - there are the rulles, tyou pay us xx/mo till you get it. What is wrong with it ?? If you can't trade just don't subscribe... 3. Those are 2 different topics... I have already written about combine names etc + your calculations are wrong... about this I have also written The problem with you guys is not the questions - it is good to ask questions.You just don't want answers - you want someone to tell you "yes you are right !! FRAUD SCAM !!!" - you don't want the truth. I wrote everything really objectiv in previous posts" You can be hater but still you can't win with pure math. "My point again is true and reputable props - dont take money from you to get selected. - Have inhouse training - select you on either your academic record or your past trading exp" You are wrong ... again... so wrong... There is a lot of props that want you to take very expensive training before they give you chance (of course, it's not like that everywhere). In other props you need to make deposit. And there are some where you do not have to do any of these things. Yes, there is a training - paid or unpaid. No - they don't give a sh.. about your academic (as soon as you are not going to algo/hft) or so you called "experience". The only thing that counts is whether you can trade or not - on real account + your statement from REAL ACCOUNT. That is how it looks in reputable props. Nobody will give you job in serious company based on sim trading ... "This is business of selling a pipe dream and collect "Test fees" not illegal or fraudulent per say but highly questionable." - and does anybody force you to do it ? You have gun pulled to your head ? It's business. You think you can trade ? show that. There are rulles, mo fee and based on SIM TRADING you can get account with real money. "" your choice,.... many experienced traders here can see the "snake oil sales" and call it out and people who have been soled a dream dont then like it! NO wonder" - you still don't get it don't you ? There is ton of sneak oil in this industry (there is 99% educators and other scamers that live just from you buing sh.t). You are still focused on names of combines, not about what you can gt for what money. I don't care about names or marketing - for me is importnatn what can I get for what. Read my posts and calculation with understanding.
You still dont get it do you? it is about questionable marketing and true intent of such a business that is what people are questioning! yah Michatr you have the last word this tin pot business model is far more ethical and better than firms like https://careers.sig.com/ and https://www.optiver.com/ap/en/about-us you win
What are you - a trader, troll or some wannabe from the street crying about the "marketing" and comibe names ? Is it possible to get real account with 4500$ drawdown + margin for 3-15 lots (let say 3 for start) spending 460$ (if you really can trade) ? Yes it is. Can you be funded after trading sim (!) ? Yes you can. Does anybody force you to do it or you have gun pulled to your head ? No. End of topic.
by the way how many get to the level you mention by only spending $460? answer to that will tell the true story it is not about marketing and combine / test name it is about integrity and true intentions of a business , get 1000 suckers to do the paid test and fund very few...I dont think you will ever get it and hence you stoop down to personal attack , here is another top one https://www.citadel.com/careers/ no BS about monthly fees for a "test" end of topic.
If you can't make it - don't take a part in it. Pure and simple. I see nothing wrong in taking money from 1000 people who wanted to give it to you, only becouse they think trading is easy and they can do it . Nobody force them. You have your mind and need to use it.
Some people posting are doing exactly that, but looking at facts is apparently well outside your own skill-set: you don't quite seem to appreciate the difference between fact and opinion, between objectivity and prejudice, or for that matter between apples and oranges, as we can see from some of the alleged "comparisons" you draw. "Another one" of what?! That's a hedge fund, for God's sake: their business has nothing to do with TST's at all. They're in a totally different market and recruiting totally different people, in totally different ways, for a totally different purpose and totally different positions! There's no resemblance at all, let alone a "comparison". On the contrary: you're the one "attacking", here: attacking TST by criticising them for not being something that they never said they were and never pretended to be in the first place.
my familiarity with TopStep is peripheral but the value proposition of the service (whether clearly articulated by the operators or not) is that if you go through the process successfully you come out as a successful trader on the other end. Online academy for aspiring traders, if you will.
Yeah, they started to push that line a few years ago. I don't have a problem if they advertise as such, except their ads say they are in the backing business. Not to mention the Academy part didn't work out the way they wanted, thus they toned it down. And just by playing on their sim you aren't guaranteed to learn anything. You will have an experience, but not necessary that you would gain knowledge.
they should create a TopStep Institute and begin bestowing TopStep designation to any candidate who successfully completes their obstacle course. Something people could proudly put on their resumes and wow potential employers. just an idea.