Did Mav pass a custom combine, or standard $150k option? Just curious, if custom, what were the details?
that's the thing, you won't get transparency in this industry. Firms that don't back traders generally don't understand how to train a trader, or don't believe it can be done. If the firm doesn't back you, and just wants a capital contribution, you can be wary, rightfully so, that their commissions and fees will be sky high. They will likely create fees (desk fees, charge you individually when they get volume discounts for data, exchange membership fees, etc.) to make sure they get a decent cut of your capital deposit. Whatever costs the firms says they have and are passing along to you, take .1 of that and that's the actual ( of fees, take a smaller multiple of commissions that the firm actually pays. ) the profit motive should be in the same direction for the trader and the firm. In other words, they make money when you make money, net. This incentivizes them to keep all trading related costs ultra low, and focus on your net profitability. If a firm does not reflect this intention in your agreement, when you talk to them, then they are just a glorified broker with a little more leverage, and your capital deposit (should you hang on to it for any length of time) is not insured against other trader's losses. Granted, there are not many of these real firms around, and it's difficult to get on board, but it can be done. It doesn't matter how much money the firm says it has "set aside" or whatever to cover these other blow ups, the fact of the matter is once you are a member and contribute capital, your money is no longer yours, and you have to ask permission (sounds like a job doesn't it) to withdraw it. To reduce competition amongst firms and reduce trader freedom even more, these firms let pass a net capital rule, which freezes your initial deposit for one year from the time of initial deposit. Firms will shrug their shoulders as if to say they are upset about it too, but nothing is further from the truth. They will tell you it was passed to prevent a trader from using his or her rent money to fund an account. But even if this is true, which it isn't, it accomplishes nothing of the kinds. They love having to keep your capital even as you are unhappy with them in the first year, because it encourages you to keep trading with them, and if you have used your risk capital and contributed it to them, it prevents you from trading somewhere else for a year. They will give other reasons for this rule, but they are insignificant compared to the trend to reduce competition and make trading less entrepreneurial and more like a job. The larger firms, the giant trading firms, obviously love this. They know their capital is always at risk when there is a brighter, better trader around, and they enact securities legislation to keep their capital risk low. I guess enough of my rant. It's always better to fund your own account with minimal fees, however, you should be in absolute control of that capital the whole time. This is the only way to keep a trading firm honest, and to keep them working for you, which is what they should be doing. If you choose to deposit capital, do it at the lowest increment possible. The firm will say,,blah blah blah, too small deposit, blah blah, not worth it, etc. Pass on these firms. If they are not willing to work with you then they are only after the money in your account and aren't aligned with your profitability. If you can't meet and talk to traders in their firm, pass. (Some firms will tell you it's against regulations to talk to their traders, but you should already know that is a bunch of B.S. What a firm like this really doesn't want is you comparing deals, rates, fees, etc., and then coming back to them and negotiating better deals. They hate this, that's why you won't really have the transparency you seek, especially on this board). Separate your dream from what a sensible person would do with their money. You will know reasonableness when it appears. If you have unanswered questions, questions not answered to your satisfaction, or a bad feeling, pass on firm after firm until it makes good sense. Most of the PR guys for firms are not successful traders, the successful guy is too busy trading to care about this side of the business. If your money ain't liquid, brother, it ain't yours and is of no use to you. Protect your financial liquidity. After reading this if you apply what I have said, you will find out that there are so few legitimate reputable firms out there. It will be frustrating but I hope it leads you to make better business decisions. This industry was not built on winners only, it need a large and steady stream of losers and new money to make it work. You mentioned "juice" so you are familiar with the casino and booking business. If you make your own four area matrix on the similarities and differences amongst firms and casinos, you will see the light much more clearly. Having said all of this, PTP and TSP appear they are doing something different. Someone sent me an email regarding this so I came back to this board to read up on it. Otherwise, with the firms that were here before, it seems to be the same old thing. Why couldn't other firms do the same thing PTP and TSP are doing? Laziness and they are probably still getting a stream of sheep thinking that the aforementioned facts do not matter. If PtP/TSP is legit, its an excellent trend in this industry, and long overdue.
To be clear my whole post referred to stock trading leveraged firms that require a series 7 and a capital deposit, and those stock trading firms that require the 7 and no capital deposit. I am unfamiliar with futures, but I think part of what I read about the model of Ptp/TSP is enticing at first glance.
I would like to invite everyone to attend a webinar presented by James Dalton (author of Mind Over Markets) right now on our Squawk Radio http://www.topsteptrader.com/TradingFloor. After Jim's presentation we will be hosting our Funded Trader Draft Day segment. We are announcing TWO new funded traders. One of the funded traders we are announcing is EliteTrader member crispy http://ow.ly/iA9N9 After Draft Day, I will be on Squawk for "In the Know", at this time, you can ask any questions you have about TopstepTrader or becoming a funded trader with us. mp
But you're getting a live account w/ real dollars in it to trade? Where's the scam part? It's rigorous to pass and you may be only getting enough to cover day trading margins, but if you pass and get an account that you have zero liability to, where's the scam?
Grow up! Nobody is gonna let you lose 50%, or more, of a funded account by taking "flyers" in gold. :eek:
They make their money off of the failures. You don't pay your employer to get a job. It's a misdirection. SEC should shut them down. At a minimum, what they're doing is highly unethical, setting up rules even the owners, let alone expert professional money managers would eventually fail at. The majority of you are fixated on the carrot, not the acceleration of the stick.
Let me see if I get this right. They should be shut down because the traders fail at trading? Should we shut down our school system for producing idiots? Should we shut down IB for charging commissions even though most their retail clients lose? Hell, we should shut down ET. God knows 99% of the posters here don't make jack. Why should Baron make 7 figures off a site where most people fail?