<i>"every dingdong retail trader (who overwhelmingly are losing traders) fails to do the basic research, the basic back (and forward testing) etc. that is more likely to result in positive expectancy."</i> I guess that pretty much sums it up then. +15pt ($75 per trade?) YM scalps must be what the big pros do inside a 308-point total session range. That's really knocking it out of the park. Congrats on your best dream day ever. May Friday be even better
LOL, another silly thread (Today sucks! 08-09-2007) -- wrong it was haven for anyone who considers themself to be a retail e-mini trader ... so long as you were able to deal with the constant back-and-forth chop of price movement -- that turns into a flame war between experienced traders who are better than 80% of the guys in this game. The spread in the YM does matter if you scalp for 10pts (give or take 5pts) per trade, trade multiple contracts, to earn your bread and butter. Otherwise, not only is there no real difference between the two, but more often than not the ES will actually give you better range on your trades, as measured on a $ (dollar) basis ... in my experience. ... and if you really did have a problem with yesterday's action you gotta realize, there are plenty of folks who didn't. Good trading, JJ P.S. I pulled-up charts of the ES & YM to do a comparative analysis of the price action, and when I factored in the pt difference I saw exactly the same length and duration of the moves.
For those of us with 15+ ES targets, yesterday afternoon was challenging; for scalpers, it was much better, I would guess (I'm not a scalper). Good luck.
15+ ES target = (roughly) 150 pt YM target i was referring to YM i generally take first target based on ATR calculations. in a less volatile market (on an intraday scalp) i might take first target +6 since i split up my trades into 4 segments (which means trades are a multiple of 4 contracts e.g. 4, 8, 12 etc.) i take my first target on 1/4 or 1/2 the total contracts - depending on the setup
When scalping, trading the YM does make more sense. Also, you get filled on limit orders more easily. Although, if I were a hardcore scalper, I'd probably trade the ER2 or the DAX !!
First let me reiterate that there's nothing wrong with trading the YM. I would do it, if necessary. My view is it's the kid brother of ES in every way. As for "capturing" the bid/ask spread in YM versus ES, that is a pure fallacy. In order to realize $$ benefit from entering limit orders at or inside the spread, a trader must likewise exit that trade <b>at the exact extreme tick</b> of the given swing's end. Think about it. If you enter YM long at 13400 on a limit order when bid/ask is 00/01, you essentially bought the bid. That very seldom happens in ES, granted. If you likewise exit that trade at 13420 and price action goes one tick further beyond there, what happened? You just lost the spread. You accomplished absolutely nothing. The same exit at 13421, 13425, 13440 would have yielded the same +20pts if your entry was likewise higher than 13400. Make sense? The only way anyone ever "captures" the bid/ask spread is by exiting to the exact extreme tick before reversal more often than not. Who amongst us does that? Nobody. * As for different tick selections for protective stops. Every once in awhile, the ES will stop out at -4 ticks (-$50) whereas the YM will hold a -10pt stop (-$50) by a single tick. That in essence made buying the bid worthwhile. For every instance that happens, ninety-nine other trades will see the stop taken out by more than the extreme tick. These days, stops are usually taken out by a country mile. Unless a majority of trades in YM hold by one tick whereas as majority of ES trades stop out by one tick, the whole basis of stop management one versus the other is moot. ** Big picture: when one symbol moves $50, the other usually does to. If that weren't the case, they'd be arbed to death for free money in great size. All the nitpicky minutae between YM and ES, which one is better is the wrong rabbit trail. Serious pro traders prefer the ES because in essence it is identical to YM and offers unlimited trade size. I commonly turn 10 - 20 ES contracts per trade, and will turn 50 - 100 contracts per trade soon. That's not possible in YM without slippage, which then totally negates bid/ask argument. The ES used to trade 2x - 3x ES dollar range per day. That spread has narrowed and in many cases disappeared. So went the advantage of ER over ES. The YM is smaller than ES, therefore nicely suited for small-lot traders. No question there. At some point in time, pro traders will need to clear more than 20 contracts, especially with managed accounts. If they are growing, they will quickly outgrow the YM. Whatever works for ya, go with. We can lose money with any of them!
I disagree. If a trader uses specific TA price levels, the opportunities for "extreme" tick fills is far greater in the YM. Even catching only one side at an extreme has the potential to be a more profitable trade than by not. With ES, such occurrence (filling on the extreme tick) is pure chance. In YM, such occurrence can actually be planned for, with some degree of trader-favorable probability. jmho Osorico
you are correct. like i said, this is not theory - this is backtested and forward tested FACT. it is not JUST the thinner depth at each level that makes you more likely to get filled on bid and/or ask - it is the 10 levels vs. 4 levels in the ES that makes a HUGE difference. trading is about edges, and using proper risk management to let those edges play out. for intraday trades, unless you are trading serious size, i would love to know exactly what EDGE the ES offers over YM for you. specifically. not how you FEEL about it. but what you know idiot retail traders fail to do this research. you need to know what market to trade, and for the VAST majority of intraday futures traders, they cannot define an advantage of ES over YM, whereas they can define advantage(s) of YM over ES.
================== That depends,mmT; M Marcus did real, really well in derivatives, lousy in Real Estate. Others would ''flip'' that order; especially after 7 year study of thier trading/investing. Wisdom is profitable to direct ; cool