I am about to start my Masters in Investment & Finance at Exeter Uni. I would appreciate help from users of this forum. Any advice and some honest truths are very welcome but please no fakers as responses are required to make useful decisions. 1)Can someone pls recommend any books which can bring me up to speed with what I need to know about trading such as the technical jargon, charting etc. I also play online virtual trading games (bullbearings... which I am really s**t at) do you know of any others which simulate real world trading systems/environments. I've only got a year to go before I start applying intensively. 2) Exeter Uni isn't Ivy league but should this worry me in my pursuit to become a professional trader? Is this Ivy league status an over-exaggerrated fact? Also what can I do to improve my chances of getting a look in? Is a CFA a pre-req to get a job as a trader? Also do these firms offer shrt term internships if so an particular ones. 3) I know how cagey IBers and city people in general are about their earnings. Could someone tell me what the earning potential of an average experienced (2-3yrs) trader would be? I googled some info the other day which said that an average trader could earn around £500k. WTF?!?! Ok seriously that sounds astronomical. I read about Lawrie Inman who made £1m in a year. Ok I know he was the exception but even making a fraction of that doesn't sound bad. 4) Apart from being a trader what other career paths can some expect such high financial returns within this industry i.e. M&A - What is the earning potential in comparison to trading? 5) When planning a career as a trader would it be better to work an IB or prop firm? Where would I get the best career development/training, maximise my earning potential, increase business networks etc? 6) Lastly are there any really good prop firms that you can suggest looking into? Thanks all & I look fwd to your responses. Rgds
LOL Ok il help you out mate, you can ignore what i say if you want, but i am genuinely trying to help you. Im 18, so younger than you. I didnt waste my time with any of that uni nonsense, instead just did some vocational B-tecs / A-level, while at the same time setting up and running my own shipping company, and while learning how to trade. Ive been trading flat out day after day for about 9months to 1 year now. I lost alot of money at 1st cos i was learning, and so thats simply the cost of learning to trade, just like you paid for your uni. Now 3months after leaving college im making a living, live in my own apartment with just over £1,000 per month rent or bills, and doing all this from an account of barely £3,000. Im not trying to show off.. lol Im just letting you know my situation so you'l know im not some faker pretending to be making 100,000s quid per year, and that i actually do know what im talking about when it comes to physcially having trading as your career. WHile it is good in some ways that you have a degree, snce that will help you get other jobs, in the world of trading a degree means absolutely NOTHING. Sorry to have to be the 1 to tell you this, but that degree could likely be the thing that crushes any chance of you ever beng a trader, unless your willing to accept that that degree is basically now non-existent in the trading world, and the only thing that actually counts is the amount of pure cash you generate. If you do actually want to be a trader there is only 1 way you can now actually achieve it- Get a demo account with something like igindex.com or extcapital.co.uk, choose what thing suits your style of trading and risk, and then start demo trading it. You need to learn all the basics of; Support and resistance lines, and they are what moves the market. And also need to wakeup early and research basically every aspect of the economic system that day, knowing whats gone broke overnight, and whats doing good. When you have got consistent enough with demo account, you need to put atleast £3,000 - £5,000 into your trading account, and then just start trading at £1 per point, and see how it goes. As far as getting a job in a bank or a firm, mate just watch the news and you'l see that there just are no longer these banks and firms even existing anymore... LOL They all going broke and bankrupt, and so are making people redundant everyday. You want to trade, you gta use your own cash now. And if you lose it all well you just have to find a way of living without money coming in.. lol And in regards to how much you will earn, it all depends on how much you start with, how skillful you are at trading, and how lucky you are. If you become skillful enough to trade profitably consistently, you then start with £5,000 if you can make £1,000 profit per month you will be doing quite well.
If you want to trade for a large firm, then the source of your degree can have some impact on your initial opportunities. If you want to trade privately or prop, it makes no difference. Ignore anything you hear or read about potential earnings. "Potential" is unlimited. "Actual" after 6 months - if you are good - is breaking even. "Actual" after 18 months - if you are good - is paying the rent with a few dollars left over. "Actual" after 3 years - if you are good - is earning what a manager at McDonald's pulls down. "Actual" after 5 years - if you are good - is earning what your friends in conventional jobs with full benefits earned 2 years ago. "Actual" after 7 years - if you have still survived - is the possibility of having financial freedom and an independent life. Or, if you are just barely surviving, you've just wasted the last 7 years of your life. So think about that. Maybe you'll do better. But the odds are against it.
Well said mate. And to thread starter: Trading seriously isn't amazing glamourous or big money and luxury cars... lol It ''can'' become that 1day eventually, after consistent building up and compounding of your capital..., but more likely to be a daily struggle to earn enough for 2 meals per day. lol
I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet! You're getting your masters in Finance, and you want to start at a prop firm? The requirements for getting into a prop firm are much less then a masters in Finance... With your degree I'm sure you could pull in a lot more out of the gate, then starting out fresh in trading. Why not try to get in with an IB or hedge fund or something similar?
Well, hope you don't mind me being direct but I feel that what U you go to has a direct impact on if you are able to land a direct trading job at anywhere meaningful. the other way I guess is you could try trading and building up a solid winning record and then try but then why would you be going for a masters in that case.
This is tough to answer in a short summary and you will probably not like the answers but here goes. I will start with the bad. First, coming to Elitetrader for advice for questions that have been answered so many times on your first post suggests you took the easy way out instead of reading and doing more research before asking questions. Second, 90% of what you read here is worthless or worse and it is up to you to figure out the difference and separate the wheat from the chaff. All I can say about this is welcome to the real world where as an adult you are pretty much on your own in figuring out what matters and what doesnât. The fact that 70% of the population is clueless and/or broke should demonstrate this point quite succinctly. So be careful where you are getting your advice because in the end you are responsible for yourself (yes, including my advice). This is the bad news. First, decide WHY you want to enter this field and if you are willing to do the work to be successful. If you only want to enter trading or investment banking because you can make tons of money you are probably doing this for the wrong reasons. The road to success is very tough and if you donât love it you probably wonât last long enough to succeed. Another thing to think about is the current events happening now. The job and general Wall Street climate is changing fast and the old ways of doing things are over and things going forward could (and probably will) be much different than they are now. For example, BofA buying Merrill means that those from Merrill used to wall street level bonuses now have their earnings power at least partially set by a regular or a bank holding company which are MUCH more conservative in allocating bonus money. Ask me how I know. I worked for a bank holding company and they are cheap. Period. Will this mean a shift in salary and bonus potential for a trader at the new Merrill (or other firms such as Morgan Stanley which also just became a bank holding company)? I donât know for sure and neither does anyone else but it would certainly give me something to think about if earnings potential was my only motivation. Maybe things will be back to the status quo in a few years. Only time will tell. This seems like the best time ever to be an independent, either prop or own your own, or work for a hedge fund of some kind. But these options are not an easy road by any stretch of the imagination. Will you starve to earn you stripes and have a chance at the big money? As others have said the odds are stacked way against you. These are just the tip of the iceberg of the things you need to consider before deciding this is for you. Good luck. You will need it. BM
You are already headed in the wrong direction. You are asking people to give you vague directions on how to become a profitable trader. The more you listen to other people, read other peoples books and use their methods the more you will fail. Let this comment be the last you ever read seriously about trading advice. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE POTENTIAL AND ABILITY TO SERIOUSLY AND OBSESSIVELY FOCUS ON MAKING PROFITABLE STRATEGIES FOR YOURSELF THROUGH INTENSE STUDY THEN YOU WILL FAIL. DID TIGER WOODS BECOME EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL AT HIS ART BECAUSE HE READ SOME BOOKS OR DID HE PRACTICE AND SACRIFICE HIS ENTIRE INTELLECT TO THE GAME? YOU HAVE TO SACRIFICE YOUR ENTIRE INTELLECT FOR AT LEAST 4-8 HOURS A DAY FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE MONTHS BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY COME UP WITH ANYTHING PROFITABLE. YOU MAY NOT THINK OF YOURSELF AS AN INTELLECTUAL BUT IF YOU WANT TO SUCCEED THEN YOU BETTER TURN INTO ONE.