TickZOOM Decision. Open Source and FREE!

Cliff, (not to get into the language debate again) just to clarify what the TickZOOM engine does. You maybe misunderstanding.

What you described below would all occur with your custom strategies as callouts from TickZOOM.

The only type of calculations the TickZOOM engine does are simple stuff like

Code:

if( tick.Ask > high) {
    high = tick.Ask;
}
volume += tick.Size;

However, the extreme complexity in the engine comes from squeezing out performance from the shear NUMBER of those calculates for every tick and reducing the number of method calls, dynamic memory allocation, and memory copy, etc. To manage all the ticks, bar intervals, instruments, tick filtering (very good), etc and calling out to custom strategies with extreme efficiency.

That's why I'm not intimated by porting it. TickZoom doesn't need AT ALL any outside code or libraries. It uses virtually none of the Windows services. On the contrary it is a very self contained "kernel" like Linux that just does one thing extremely well and reliably.

The rest will be addons, custom strategies, etc.

And I want to reiterate that right now, the C# is extremely fast and can call out to unmanaged C++ code easily even on Linux and Mono. I already have it working to call out to Java. I had forgotten the Business Rules engine included as an add-on strategies. I don't think it's very useful now but it does demonstrate how to call Java code for those who care.

Mono has issues right now only in lack of support to Windows specific stuff.

TickZOOM only uses the language itself to do it's job. It doesn't need the Windows stuff. Besides, who wants the Windows stuff on Linux anyway?

Sincerely,
Wayne

 

I want to modify this. TickZOOM already supports calling out to Java code with an example of how to do that. You will be able to get the exactly libraries needed, etc included with TickZOOM.

C++ is rather easy to call out from C# but I don't have an example yet. I'll personally setup a Linux server with Mono to support C++ if anyone who buys a service agreement (when available) asks for C++ support.

Eventually, I'm willing to port them but we'll have to prioritize it as a group.

My guess is that once the C++ and Java people see that can write all their stuff in their favorite language already, they may vote for parrallel processing speed of multiple instruments to go into the engine before porting.

Hey, but I'm only guessing, I'll set the paying service customers vote and decide what they care about most.

That will be another advantage of paid support the right to vote on enhancements.

Sincerely,
Wayne

 

Cool it has a 30 day free trial. I will download it tonight and record a video of the software and it's performance. ( hope it has audio too).

I'll also show a little about how to use it like how I run it, etc.

I'll do an intro with a demo of doing a historical test. And then separate ones for demoing the other modes of optimization, market replay, and real time trading during the weekend.

This will be useful for more than just proving. It can be an intro for beta testers too.

Sincerely,
Wayne

 

CamStudio is a free one...
http://camstudio.org/

 

Note: as soon as we can resolve the funding question with a final decision. I can focus my energy on doing the steps to release this thing instead of research, planning, and discussion.

My first priority will be to put up the intro video of TickZOOM on tickzoom.org so you can see it in action. That will probably influence this discussion greatly.

So feel free reserve comment on the funding question till then if you have any doubts. I'll post back when it's ready. Hopefully tonight at tomorrow.

Sincerely,
Wayne

 

Someone just PM'd a good question.

Well that depends. If you only want real time charting then it's fine.

But my guess is you want to trade right?

Well, right now the real time does support discretionary trading but EXTREMELY simplistic. I only use it for testing purposes.

You use the Up arrow to go long, the Down arrow to go short, and the Zero key on the keypad to go flat. The number of contracts is hard coded, you could change that of course since you have source code, if you're a programmer.

As far as charting, it does tons of things like indicators, histograms, lines, etc.

But none of those can be invoked by clicking in the GUI right now (but again you could add that I guess).

They're used in auto strategies and draw themselves to the chart automatically.

Now, if you're a programmer and know how to work in GUI in C# then you could easily add pop up forms to enter fancier orders. I found doing the GUI part in general to be quite simple (I'm not a GUI programmer normally.)

The only complexity was in interfacing with the drawing engine to make trading time intervals up-date in real time, etc.

Oh I even have cool feature I made that keeps the currently forming bar generally in the center of the screen instead of way over on the right. (It's options you can turn it off).

It let's the bars build naturally without any scrolling. They build their way accross to the right and when they start to get close it auto-scrolls the current bar back to the center.

Likewise if spikes move the mark up or down off the screen, it smoothly auto scrolls the current bar back towards the center.

That part took a lot of work to get it look very smooth in how it updates the graphics. I'm kind of a perfectionist. It looks great.

If your improve it , it would be wise submit them back to the open source project for testing by TickZOOM and other users especially so you can count on it still being there in future versions.

If not, then I highly recommend NinjaTrader. I like it very much it has great features for entering fancy trades manually. Trading against the DOM, etc.

(By the way, TickZOOM has data for 5 levels of the DOM so auto traders can trade against that. And you can graph it like an indicator but I don't have a real time DOM view yet. It would be cool to add that later just for research purposes.)

Wayne

 

Hi Wayne,

i didn't want to come across negative, it just looks like you change your idea every day (port/don't port to XYZ, open source/not open source, pay/don't pay, etc.). Seeing that, one possibility out of many might just be that you don't do it all, that's why i added the (if) in my last post.

In any case, its hard to intelligently comment on something without documentation let alone having it used. On paper, most trading software looks good, the problems are always in the details (often small things that could easily be corrected with access to the src code, that's what got me interested in this).

As for the fees, i don't know. If its a good piece of software, it may even succeed. But that alone is not enough, it needs someone with enough stamina and determination to get something off the ground, and it will probably take longer than a few months (be it an open source project or commercial). But you probably know that.

I'm also not quite clear where you are headed with this. Are you still looking for active participation in development/testing/documentation like a classical open source project? For that, a subscription-based environment probably isn't ideal - in terms of getting people committed to do things beyond from what they immediately need themselves. On the other hand i understand that you aren't a charity organization and want some sort of compensation for your efforts. Me, i'm all about productivity. If it has merit, a fee shouldn't be a problem.

 

P.S. you mentioned something about $200-300 for hosting on XP - i understand you are a MB client, they rent out XP servers for $100 (pretty much eliminating latency to their FX ecn too).

 

That's weird. I called and discussed with someone and got complete inability to answer my questions of even what type of server XP or Linux they had. I'll try again. That would be IDEAL.

Thanks.

 

Understood. It has been a roller coaster for me and a learning process. Maybe I should have done a lot more home work before asking on E.T.

Most of those decisions are final now.

1. Certainty of porting to C++, and Java eventually. But paying users will vote on the priority relative to other items on the road map.
2. TickZOOM already supports C++, and Java, as well as .NET languages like C#, VB, etc. for writing your own custom strategies and addons.
3. License is final as GPLv3 open source. That by itself makes most developers comfortable to contribute even if there's a fee because they're protected.
4. Price of TickZOOM license is free for a certainty. Specifically that means you pay nothing ever for the license. You own whatever version you download as long as you want to use it with out ever paying anything. If people decline to purchase services they can can use the previous version for FREE and get the new version when it's later on released for FREE. Hey, patience is a virtue, right?
5. TickZOOM offers service of maintaining, testing, enhancing the code, and tech support. Since those users pay for that service, they have the [r]right[/r] to get the latest and greatest versions well before freeloaders, don't you agree?

Again it's open source. The real value in open source, as you know, is control. Once you get the source code, you're in control with TickZOOM.

Actually, I don't know. Sometimes products linger. Other times they take off like wild fire. It's kind of like war, there's no true way of predicting. Statistics say 90% of software projects fail. 90% of the time they it's because of lack of funding which is true of any project closed or open. So that's why I'm most concerned about funding.

Without a solid plan we're doomed before we start.

Pippi, I'm glad you asked. This is the million dollar question.

I understand how feel about "classic" open source projects. I felt the same way until only a few days ago. But in my research I found those projects are a myth or the rare case. Robert Young the CEO of Red Hat Linux and co-founder wrote a book on how open source software and specifically Linux truly works as a business. It also explains the truth about how open source gets code contributions.

It was exactly, precisely the kind of insider information to the open source industry need here.

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_1/29000/29611/2/print/29611_distilled.pdf

Based on what I learned, people always talk about Linux being free, but he points out that most people who have Linux buy a distribution in a box.
And many of those were "Official" Red Hat Linux. Plus Linus, the creator, gets plenty of funding.

People call it free because the software license really is free. But they happily paid for the service of Red Hat to bundle the parts of Linux from all over the internet into a tested, official release. And many happily donate to keep the development going.

Plus, while Linux is considered free there are large companies like Red Hat making a lot of money off of Linux. (But no where near as much as MS makes off Windows.) So it keeps open source affordable.

He explains the real power in that strategy. And the good sense. He gives the example of Nasa that NEVER buys any closed source. They only by open due to the need to have control to fix things quickly in an emergency.

So the real powerful value in TickZOOM like Linux is what you said, YOU get the source code. That actually makes TickZOOM have far more value than any closed source price tag.

Look at TradeStation is CLOSE source and very expensive but still tons of add-ons and indicators have been created for it. That will be twice as much for an open source engine.

So how does open source really grow? It's because people make addons and tools to TickZOOM (or Linux). They may never deliberately contribute them back but we will track down that source code and add it into the TickZOOM Official Distribtution. In point of fact, there's already tons of open source tools in Java, C++ and some in C# that we can bundle and test with TickZOOM right away with examples how to use them, etc.

So buy simply incorporating existing open source code, TickZOOM can quickly leapfrog the rest of the commercial vendors. Those vendors can never do that because they refuse to open their own source.

So you see? I learned that open source doesn't really grow by people voluntarily contributing to a specific project but it grows by integrating tons of different open source project into one powerful tool.

I hope it resolves your concern. The most practical way people collaborate on working on an open source project is what they already do on closed source. Report bugs, ask questions, correct or add documentation. That allows the maintainers to fix bugs for the common good, improve the documentation, etc. The reason that works is because the number of good programmers is small and they're picky about what they work on, tend to want to create their own project rather than work on somebody else's. Plus, it's a real pain learning someone else's code. We all have different coding styles, experience levels at design, etc.

Instead, what we can expect is perhaps one of the users uses IB broker so they write an IB broker interface. Being a smart programmer with money at stake they'll post it somewhere (even if not on TickZOOM site) with code so others can use it too. We can either let that person continue to maintain it and just include the code in the bundle with TickZOOM. Or if they drop it or neglect it, we can begin maintaining it ourselves.

That, in fact, is GNU/Linux grows and exists today.

Of course, we'll support others who have add on products, they can put links on tickzoom.org site. A couple guys say they want to make an add-on and sell it. That's fine too they can post it on the site. That benefits us all because if the package it with TickZOOM, they must share their source also.

So I hope this info and reading that link resolves your concerns on that score. These points resolved mine entirely.

Same as above. I know how you feel, I had that dreamy idea too, but found it isn't true. All the enhancements come only from what people immediately need themselves. And they release the code so others can use/test/and fix it. So again, it's all good. It's all share and share alike in the open source world.

Well thanks for your support. I'm turning off email, elitetrader, and everything to work on that video now!

Good night everyone.


Wayne