Thoughts on ITM calender calls

Discussion in 'Options' started by thebubs, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. :D
     
    #61     Aug 28, 2009
  2. that might explain the "paradox".....looks like i might have been wrong(really dont want to surrender,i cannot find an argument against it)
    its the dividend,after all,not the IV as i thought......
    but still there is a difference:D
    i ve noticed that,but never knew there is a dividend prising in SPY.

    and still there's something else-lets get the same example:
    SPY 90 strike sep/dec:
    put spread-215$
    call spread-165$

    and a little impossible scenario- drop in IV to 10%,drop of the underline to 90,at sep 3(no change in dividend prising)

    the call loses 25% of its value,the put spread 45% of its.
    why would they change so diferently at my calculator,if there's no IV relation?
     
    #62     Aug 28, 2009
  3. the calendars should rise in value, not fall. the IV crush hurts them both, yes, but the move toward the strike should help them both by a greater amount. btw in the situation you cite, IV will almost certainly rise and not fall should SPY move down from 103+ to 90.

    the call calendar may outperform on a percentage basis in this particular (dividend) situation, because the drop in delta of the long Dec call makes the dividend payout less painful. in other words, you originally paid less for your call calendar than the put version because the dividend implicitly hurts the high-delta, Dec 90 call. as the underlying drops and the long call delta falls with it, the dividend payout hurts you less, so the call calendar spread may widen more than the put version.
     
    #63     Aug 29, 2009
  4. thebubs

    thebubs

    here is an example using GE Sept/Oct calender calls on 14 strike price

    Calendar Call 14 strike price

    Sept
    +GEWIN 0.51 0.52 0.52 -0.08 5,317
    Vol. 143,084


    Oct
    GEWJN 0.85 0.87 0.87 -0.07 1,792
    Vol. 13,849


    Price difference .85-.51= 0.34

    Calendar Put 14 strike Price

    Sept
    +GEWUN 0.47 0.49 0.48 0.03 8,860
    Vol.74,763

    Oct
    +GEWVN 0.86 0.88 0.89 0.06 2,486
    Vol. 13,672

    Price difference 0.86- 0.47= 0.39

    Price difference between the to is 5 cents, that’s a 12.8% difference if they are identical, why the 12% diffrence. Not trying to be condescending but why the diffrence?
     
    #64     Aug 29, 2009
  5. wayneL

    wayneL

    ...
     
    #65     Aug 29, 2009
  6. G , rerun the same with IR > 7%
     
    #66     Aug 29, 2009
  7. because GE goes ex-dividend by .10 in Sep.

    http://www.ge.com/investors/stock_info/dividend_history.html
     
    #67     Aug 29, 2009
  8. Hi. A, nice to hear form you.

    What exactly do you mean by run sim with IR > 7%?

    Thanks
     
    #68     Aug 29, 2009
  9. thebubs

    thebubs

    very true, i think the main diffrence between the two is what you do with the back end, other then that I would agree they are the same.
     
    #69     Aug 29, 2009
  10. IV_Trader brought up a good point. the greater the interest rate, the higher the debit for the call cdr will be so since the cdr buyer loses the debit when stock goes away from strike at expiration, it could make a difference in the payoff. However we are talking about interst rate > 7% for it to start making a difference.

    I moved the IR to 10% and the debit of the call vs put cdr is $44 vs. $68 in my prev example.In spite of the prem difference with stock at $30 at expiration, the call cdr loses $31 vs $26 on the put cdr.Only stock lower than $30 does the bigger debit start to come into play.
    Ex- at 24 the call cdr loses 69 vs 44 on the put cdr.


    Thanks A.
     
    #70     Aug 29, 2009