yes I did - and I took it this way. there are a lot of great arab and muslim people out there. I agree. I have met some. Then I also saw what I consider a concession on your part - you detest the violence as well. Then I also saw too big a blame being placed on others. (in my opinion) . Which is understandable. However to me whether there are jewish website distorting a few facts does not matter. I have always believed actions speak louder then words. The actions I see show me that arabs and muslims are not controlling the radical elements in Britain and the middle east. My in-laws who are from holland lived in India - they told all sorts of horrible deeds being done in that country by you know who. I see the deeds being done by saudi arabia with these schools of hate they export. (I now agree Bush is full of shit.) I see Imams preaching violence and then I see suicide bombings. Whether Jewish people skew the news means almost nothing to me. I too would be happy to have the U.S out of the middle east. The problems will still remain.
Did I say that all we have to do is change our foreign policy? However, maybe if we did, then perhaps the American Muslims would be more willing to speak with their "brothers" in the Middle East and get them to listen to some reason, who knows? Will we know without trying? Liberals are not the ones who created the hell hole that is now Iraq, nor were they in charge during 9/11. You want to blame liberals, but the reality is that Bush's responsibility...you know the man you voted for, probably twice, had the job of protecting America, and he was warned to some extent but ignored those warnings. I am not talking about conspiracy theories, but real warnings from men like Richard Clarke and other intelligence agencies. Think about it, George Bush, Mr. Law and Order, Mr. Capital punishment...did nothing to strengthen airline security, Mr. Vigilance himself could have tightened up airline passenger security... You simply cannot keep blaming liberals (a least with a good conscience) for Bush's failures. The buck stopped stopping at Clinton's desk on January 20th 2001...
Father Found Guilty in Honor Killing By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer 3 hours ago LONDON - A father who ordered his daughter brutally slain for falling in love with the wrong man in a so-called "honor killing" was found guilty of murder on Monday. Banaz Mahmod, 20, was strangled with a boot lace, stuffed into a suitcase and buried in a back garden. Her death is the latest in an increasing trend of such killings in Britain, home to some 1.8 million Muslims. More than 100 homicides are under investigation as potential "honor killings." Mahmod Mahmod, 52, and his brother Ari Mahmod, 51, planned the killing during a family meeting, prosecutors told the court. Two others have pleaded guilty in the case. Two more suspects have fled the country. Sentencing is expected later this month. The men accused the young woman of shaming her family by ending an abusive arranged marriage, becoming too Westernized and falling in love with a man who didn't come from their Iraqi village. The Kurdish family came to Britain in 1998 when Banaz Mahmod was 11. "She was my present, my future, my hope," said Rahmat Suleimani, 29, Banaz Mahmod's boyfriend. During the three-month trial, prosecutors said Mahmod's father beat his daughter for using hairspray and adopting other Western ways. Her uncle once told her she would have been "turned to ashes" if she were his daughter and had shamed the family by becoming involved with the Iranian Kurd, her sister 22-year-old Bekhal Mahmod testified. Banaz Mahmod ran away from home when she was a teenager but returned when her father sent her an audio tape in which he warned he would kill her sisters, her mother and himself if she did not come home, her sister said. She was later hospitalized after her brother attacked her, the sister told the court. The brother said he had been paid by their father to finish her off but in the end was unable to do it, said the sister, who testified in a full black burqa. She said she still feared for her own life. The years of Banaz Mahmod's abuse were compounded by police officers who repeatedly dismissed her cries for help. She first went to police in December 2005, saying she suspected her uncle was trying to kill her and her boyfriend. She sent police a letter naming the men who she thought would later kill her. On New Year's Eve, she was lured by her father to her grandmother's home, where she suspected he planned to attack her after he forced her to gulp down brandy and approached her while wearing gloves. She escaped by breaking a window and was treated at a hospital. Police dismissed her suspicions, and one officer, who is under investigation, considered charging her with damages for breaking her grandmother's window. Laying in her hospital bed after the escape, Mahmod recorded a dramatic video message saying she was "really scared." The videotape, taken by her boyfriend at the hospital, was shown to the jury during the trial. After she was released from the hospital, she returned home and tried to convince her family she had stopped seeing her boyfriend. But friends told the family they spotted the couple together on Jan. 22, 2006. Soon after, a group of men allegedly approached her boyfriend and tried to lure him into a car but he refused. It was that event that prompted Banaz Mahmod to go to police again. This time officers tried to persuade her to stay in a safe house. She refused, believing that her mother would protect her. But her mother and father left her alone in the house the next day. Her boyfriend alerted police after time passed in which she failed to send him text messages. Her body wasn't discovered until three months later after police tracked phone records. Britain has seen more than 25 women killed by their Muslim relatives in the past decade for offenses they believed brought shame on the family. More than 100 other homicides are under investigation as potential honor killings. Some Muslim communities in Britain practice Sharia, or strict Islamic law. "We're seeing an increase around the world, due in part to the rise in Islamic fundamentalism," said Diana Nammi with the London-based Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organization.
If you had read something this disingenuous, you know what your response would be? You would say "KHAHAHAHAHA!!" You want me to make the question more focused? Okay, wael, just for you. Let's just state the question plainly, without any embellishments or assumptions. Let's just deal with FACTS Why is it that they Jews never hang teenage kids for flirting or break their hands for playing Beatles songs? Why is it that the Jews don't tell me that if I am not a believer in their God, I will be killed? Why are Muslims the only ones who want to murder me because I don't share their belief?? How's that? Could it get any more focused than that? Let's face it wael, this is the question that I have asked you about 10 times in different threads in the past months, the question which you always have to sidestep. The reason you have to sidestep this question? Because the answer is very disturbing, isn't it?
your taking the wrong tack here mate... on the one hand "Muslims" do need to have their Vatican II moment, and the sooner, the better as for barbaric acts, they must be condemned and the perpetrators punished, and similarly for the religious / thought / community leaders who would have incited / encouraged such acts if any where a criminal chooses to use "religion" to defend / justify his/her acts, then there is a case for investigating his/her religious / thought leader(s) as well, and punish them accordingly if the situation warrants in countries where laws are lacking or enforcement is weak, we would be better inspired to apply PEER type pressure, instead of showing contempt or condescendence for the local "savages"... its not so long ago that Milosevic or the guy with a little moustache were in power, its not so long ago that the last black man was lynched by a mob in the US... now, keep in mind that all communities on this planet, even if they all have TVs etc, are not at the same stage of development, notably in terms of 1) education, 2) social norms, 3) legal framework... and social norms evolve SLOWLY... and evolve "better" if the changes come from within... as a matter of fact, for good or bad some of those communities still live as they used to live centuries ago... and back then the world was not a pretty place if you look at your history books... (and its not that much prettier now but am sure you get my point...) but you will note that in more educated parts of the Arab world, and in more educated parts of the rest of the world as well, social norms HAVE evolved / converged, and any such barbaric acts, committed by muslims or not, are the fact of a few, and are generally condemned by muslims themselves and by Muslim and other religious or community leaders... i don't want to go into "relativism" here, however a "crime" is defined as such in the context of the social norms and prevailing laws of the community that is passing judgement... where WE see a crime committed in another sovereign / autonomous community that for whatever reasons does not recognize the particular act as a crime, our choice is either to take over / colonize, "educate" or engage, initiate a dialogue, apply peer pressure, depending... having said that, there's no question that intentionally maiming an innocent human being is a fucking crime... therefore countries and leaders of any feather who allow any such practices to continue under the cover of whatever shouldn't be surprised if they come under harsh criticism / attack / ban etc... and so would any supporters of those countries / leaders etc... in defense of the "Arabs" though, if i may "generalize" thusly, you may want to consider that they kinda have their hands full with: . coming out of colonization by the Old Powers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism#Decolonization . simultaneously dealing with 60 years of continued US/CIA organized undermining / downright overthrow of their secular and democratically-elected leaders... just food for thought ;-)
As I explained to you earlier traderNik...I do not swim that way! I do not compare religions both religions have their own good and bad! I compare ideologies that cling to these two religions in an attempt to manipulate that religion or another to their advantage. Had you asked me about, for example, Israelis or settlers or zionists, I would've been more than happy to answer you. Your question has a raciest undertone to it. I tried to nicely re-direct you to the type of question I am willing to answer but it seems that you did not get the hint. Example, Global Islamic movements are as sick and demented as the global zionist ideology. zionist ideology does not bother you due to the fact that you perceive them as a none threat to you, be it true or not, but it is, never the less, a fascistic, expansionist and criminal ideology that is hyper raciest. Hundreds of thousands of Jews will have my stands against this ideology and even more! I see myself as a man who opposes the Islamic Global movement as much as a Jew opposes the zionist ideology. Both, my mother's religion and that Jewish man's religion has been hacked by these criminals. In regard to hanging teenage girls and stoning others. What can I say! These are primitive and tribal behaviors that are more rooted in the honor tribal culture of these people. But, this is not who we really are traderNik! I swear it is not the norm...Not even close!!! Did it happen in our Arab societies as a whole? You bet it did! did we stand watching and cheering? Hell no! Did we let the man/ Men get away with it. Go ask these men who are now begging for mercy 12 floors underground in an unknown jail in the middle of nowhere. I can guarantee you that these primitive acts against women happen in your society and religion to but is it as magnified as Tigger would love to show it? Hell no! Not even manutly close! Had there been a reason to put you under a negative light to promote an agenda against you as an American or against your relegion as a Christian, Had you had people working 24 hours a day monitering your media for incidents like that so that they could promote hate against you, you would've been looking as bad as they are trying to make me look. One of MEMRI partners is an ex Mossad head who knows his business traderNik. Think about it!! I know who you are traderNik! And as much as I oppose some of your views, I really think that you are genuine in your stands as opposed to this Tigger who is trying to promote the zionist hate agenda. If I did not answer your question rightly then tell me.
Here's why it's called the Religion of Piss: If golden showers won't make you convert, nothing will. Be sure to gargle well at the end. I'm guessing most mothers don't make a lunch out of baby crap, though. The ones who have made it out of the 7th century, anyway. I've heard of drinking the koolaide before, but drink the piss or you're out? Holy Shi-ite. Naturally, the PR is making them look bad, so we should just ignore things from the past, regardless of how true or false they might be: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA36307 Be sure to learn the major difference between a guilt culture (like the West) and a barbaric shame culture: http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2006/02/shame-guilt-muslim-psyche-and-danish.html Truth or falsehood is completely irrelevent to the muslim culture. That's why Wally lies like a rug, and couldn't admit he was wrong even after it's obvious: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51643 That's why they believe things like Jews need the blood of Arabs of palestinians for pastry for some religious holiday. That's why the minister of information of Iraq kept saying they were winning while US tanks were a block away from him in Baghdad. That's why Al-Jazeera is still watched and believed even after numerous fake stories, even after their claims of imminent victory by Iraq during GWII (the most one-sided large scale conflict ever). And that's why Wally blows his stack at these posts. It's shameful.