This is what happens when you accept immorality as a "lifestyle" choice

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by peilthetraveler, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. You are not comparing apples to apples, but apples to spaceships.

    Gay human relations are the result of two consenting individuals.
    Animals cannot consent. Even if they can, we can't accurately measure that consent. So, it cannot possibly be moral for humans to have sex with animals. Theoretically speaking, for a person of perverse psychology, sex with animals could be "good" and thus "moral" but only if that animal consented, which I think we can both agree is not possible.

    I would encourage you to define morality. Furthermore, think about how your emotional patterns and superficial reasoning about the issue are contributing to your anger.

    As a straight male, I would gladly debate whether or not gay marriage is "moral" with you (if you would like), but only if you are willing to use integrity, tact, and logic in your arguments.
     
  2. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Peil, something for you to consider. If one really is outraged over the gay lifestyle, then you should absolutely support gay marriage. Studies have shown that gays not in relationships can have 100's and 1000's of sex partners. But when married settle down to one. The best thing we can do to stop the spread of STD's and reduce the amount of unsafe sex in the gay community is actually to support marriage and responsibility. By being against marriage, you are actually supporting the gay lifestyle more and the rapid spread of disease. Just something to think about.
     
  3. jem

    jem

    I would like to see you make that argument arguing your side and discussing your counters to the other side of the argument.

    Please consider 1000s of year of law, culture and religion on the formation of morality.

    Note... I am not say gays should not practice sodomy because I believe in the right to privacy. I am just not prepared to accept that just because something is legal it is moral.

    Morality has a historical and frequently cultural and religious based component.

     
  4. Ricter

    Ricter

    That's all morality is, it's made up by people.
     
  5. pspr

    pspr

    As directed by God, rectum.

    Peil, you are right. There is nothing to stop amoral marriages of multiple partners of the same sex or even marriages between man and animal.

    If the traditional definition can be changed to an act of non-appropriation then anything goes. The only thing needed is enough crazy liberals to support free choice.
     
  6. jem

    jem

    that is one view... I prefer the view that there is a natural law and therefore a natural morality....

    which is sort of hinted at here... in the conversation about Gods.
    I believe it is our job to come as close to figuring out what all the gods would consider pious... and act accordingly.

    Except when cursing out foes on the internet.




    http://library.thinkquest.org/18775/plato/morp.htm

    Plato's Thoughts On Morality

    Remember that at one point in Socrates' life he was sentenced to death, and is in a prison awaiting his sentence of death. Also, his old friend Crito was telling him to escape and save himself. Socrates argues about moral standards, and tells that if a man was pursuing "physical fitness," he would listen to a "doctor or trainer," and ignore the advice of others. He puts his situation in the same light. He says that he should listen to the wise rather than the foolish. Socrates insists on act with principal rather than self-interest.

    Socrates plainly states that, "What is dear to the gods is pious, what is not is impious." But, he responds with the statement that sometimes even the gods disagree; "the just and the unjust, the beautiful and the ugly, the good and the bad. Are these not the subjects of difference about which, when we are unable to come to a satisfactory decision, you and I and other men become hostile to each other whenever we do?" Therefore, he maintains, "what all gods hate is impious, and what they all love is pious, and what some gods love, and others hate is neither or both."

    Plato tries to define justice in the Republic. Cephalus had a theory on justice which states "that justice or right is simply to speak the truth and to pay back any debt one may have contracted." Socrates puts down this theory with a counterexample. He says that if you borrowed some weapons from a friend of yours, and you told him you will return them when he asks for them back. One day he comes to you mad about something, and asks for his weapons; do you tell him the truth (according to Cephalus) or not return them because you know he is about to inflict harm to someone with the weapons. After this Socrates gives his own definition of justice. He says that justice means that the stronger looks after the weaker, and to look after the good of the many.
     
  7. Hi Jem. Before we discuss morality, we need to define "good". Has "good" been formed by law, culture, or religion or has it always just been? Whose definition of "good" will we use? Nature's? According to Plato and others, man's natural state has often been "bad".

    I am the last person to say that if something is legal, it is moral. Some things which are legal are not moral; and some things that are moral are not legal.

    To be clear, I don't actually think I can write anything new on this topic. Furthermore, the likelihood of me persuading anyone on elitetrader to change their minds on an emotional issue like this is also probably fairly low.

    It's like this: Every now and then I read something on the internet that I don't agree with and for the next 30 minutes, I am pulled into arguing until my passion runs out. I think the passion is running dry already and we have yet to begin lol.
     
  8. If you ask your German friend what he did over the weekend and he says he "got some tail", run as fast as you can away from him. :(
     
    #10     Jul 7, 2013