Yeah, i saw that...2.5 million in profits on some options is not a lot though when you consider ANY put option would be up....what might be more interesting is this: were there ANY put options that LOST value in that time period? I'll venture that 95% made money due to the tragedy....what's weird is that I was just doing a little research and there are thousands of sites and articles about it, yet almost every one is based on an article by some guy named Michael Rupert.. BTW No hard feelings from yesterday??? i was on edge
no prob on the comments from yesterday...long forgotten. i came across some links to the chicago sun that referenced the CBOE investigating the unusual activities...but the stories are no longer available.
surfer I't tough not to be skeptical. This is huge by any measurement. However; with all due respect, are we to dismiss the following as just a hoax? Massive Put Options spikes and 'Naked' calls Bloomberg News reported that put options in UAL Corp (parent for United Airlines) surged 285 times the average volume and 75 times the total number of put options traded up until that time. This was the largest reported spike. In another observation of the same phenomena reported in the September 22nd Herald Sun, UAL put options contracts soared 90 times in one day over total from the previous three weeks. That's 90x not 90%. On September 10, put option contracts on AMR (parent for American Airlines) spiked 60 times the daily average and five times the total of all $30 put options traded before September 10. ["Pre-attack trading probed: Regulators in U.S., Europe and Asia check put options"; Judy Mathewson and Michael Nol, September 19] "I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets," said John Kinnucan, principal of Broadband Research quoted in The San Francisco Chronicle. Bloomberg.com and Erlangersqeezeplay.com published reports identifying a clear pattern of highly unusual, and in some cases, massive spikes in put options in stocks that would have been deemed by those with detailed prior knowledge most likely hardest hit in the market aftermath of a WTC attack. These were primarily airline (UAL and AMR, notably not Delta), insurance, brokerage and hotel stocks. Phil Erlanger also noted a pattern of significant spikes in 'naked calls' in the same stocks. Naked calls are a high-risk form of short selling not backed up by stock position in the company at issue. Thirty-eight companies were placed on a SEC list and circulated amongst brokerages that placed the put options on behalf of clients. These included among many others, TD Waterhouse, NFS (subsidiary of Fidelity of Boston), Alex Brown/Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, and Lehman Brothers. [The San Francisco Chronicle; AP]. In the January 2002 Congressional record, an informal survey conducted by Levin-Grassley staffs, revealed that 10 of 22 responding securities and brokerage firms, managed accounts for 45,000 offshore clients. Is Bloomberg.com, Erlangersqeezeplay.com, SEC list and the rest, publishing an elaborate pile of dissinformation? C Robinson wrote: Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options. Although there was no news at that time to justify so much "left-handed" trading, United Airlines stock fell 42 percent, from $30.82 per share to $17.50, when the market reopened after the attacks. Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these "insiders" would have profited by almost $5 million. On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance; but American Airlines stock fell 39 percent, from $29.70 to $18.00 per share, when the market reopened. Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent "insiders," they would represent a gain of about $4 million. No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday. http://www.ict.org.il/ Are we to dismiss the above as another non credible source? CBOE included? There must be some ETer's that have access to bloomberg option historical info. Search and report back would shed some light. Anyway, a good dose of unbiased skepticism is a healthy thing. I'm not into conspiracies, but these articles are compelling. And we all probably agree, that when sums of money, and high political interests are involved, "funny" things happen to information, truth, justice, and punishment.
"In a report Tuesday, Bloomberg News said three trading days before the attack, the volume of put option contracts sold for UAL was 285 times higher than average. According to Bloomberg, the day before the two American Airlines jets were hijacked and crashed, the number of option contracts for AMR was 60 times the daily average" quote taken from the LA Times. given the liquidity issues for trading these options, 285 times higher than avg vol is huge.
thanks everyone for the info. what i find most interesting it that all the information is someone qouting someone else, etc. i would like to see the data itself. surely someone on elite can directly verify from bloomberg or another data source. best, surfer
Those doubting the options #s are starting to sound downright conspiratorial yourselves. Even after article after article is cited, the info is still suspect b/c there may be a shared sources and this one source may be motivated by something, right? Obviously, we should look to anti-US forces seeking to make the terrorists appear more intelligent and cunning......
I think what we are trying to figure out ( or at least i am ) is why there are 1000's of web site articles which almost all refer back to a single story or two, and there are very few credible stories...certainly CNBC, ABC, CBS ect..wold run with this wouldn't they? And what i think Surf is lookign for is the actuall option figures for that day...or the day leading up to it.......I for one would be interested to see if there were other options manipulated....for instance, you could get the same effect and draw les attnetion to the trading by selling naked calls at a hefty premium......then when the stock crashes you could close the option out with a buy.
It would be hard to ever find out how many of the puts were from evil people "in the know" ahead of time about 9-11 and how many were from people "piling on" by watching option open interest. Many individuals and subscription sites (like the wolf at http://www.thewolf.cc/index.htm) watch for what they think are insider plays to follow along with for a quick score. Thus the amounts being tossed around here as terrorist profits may be more difficult to calculate. There is no doubt though our govenment sells us pions down the river when it comes to the big money interests. The seeming lack of investigation may reflect this. I am sure there are many people being watched though because of this activity and other stuff though. The only thing for certain is that we will never know the real truth.
speaking of statistics, 285 TIMES avg vol is impressive to me. please, someone show me where i am being stupid. (it's happened before) other airlines didn't experience these same types of spikes. as far as the source goes, bloomberg is quoted all the time.....the probabilities of the LA Times intentionally misquoting bloomberg seems unrealistic.